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New Xbox 360 Elite, no HD DVD
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCalidain
You're no Daisy at all!
Registered: March 16, 2007
Posts: 405
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Just fess up, you are on the SONY payroll, we all know it to be true, quit denying it!!!



SONY didn't delay the release of the PS3 so it could include HDMI 1.3 on its console.  The inclusion of HDMI 1.3 on the PS3 was due to the fact that the PS3 was in fact delayed (to iron out Blu-Ray issues)!!!  The delay made it easy for SONY to include the THEN available new HDMI format!!!

XBOX 360 came out well over a year ago, Microsoft was probably aware of the upcoming HDMI improvement but through analysis of the market and cost of delaying the XBOX 360 release, they chose not to wait I am sure.  Was it fair not to include the HDMI interconnect, that depends, I am sure those consumers who purchased the XBOX 360 upon release really could've cared less at that time.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
Just fess up, you are on the SONY payroll, we all know it to be true, quit denying it!!!


I wish it was true.  I like extra money for telling the truth and some of my opinions!

Quote:
SONY didn't delay the release of the PS3 so it could include HDMI 1.3 on its console.  The inclusion of HDMI 1.3 on the PS3 was due to the fact that the PS3 was in fact delayed (to iron out Blu-Ray issues)!!!  The delay made it easy for SONY to include the THEN available new HDMI format!!!

Like I said in my post, HDMI 1.3 was just one of the features.

Remember, HDMI 1.3 wasn't even out before the PS3 was launched.  It wasn't easy to add HDMI 1.3.  Sony had to pioneer the quality control procedures for HDMI 1.3.  That's not an quick thing.  On the other hand, HDMI 1.1 was out way before the Xbox 360 launched, but yet they did not include it.

Quote:
XBOX 360 came out well over a year ago, Microsoft was probably aware of the upcoming HDMI improvement but through analysis of the market and cost of delaying the XBOX 360 release, they chose not to wait I am sure.
 
HDMI was out for some time before the Xbox 360.  A delay, if any, should have been minimal for a product that was already established as a well implemented standard interface in HDTVs.

Quote:
Was it fair not to include the HDMI interconnect, that depends, I am sure those consumers who purchased the XBOX 360 upon release really could've cared less at that time.

It is not suppose to be the consumer's job to see what's happening at that time or around the corner.  The consumers could have cared less at the time, but a lot of them care now!  Now, they are forced to make a $480 choice just for HDMI 1.2 on the same Xbox360 platform.  Especially, after telling people an HDMI accessory was coming for $99.  Is that fair?  I think not.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCalidain
You're no Daisy at all!
Registered: March 16, 2007
Posts: 405
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The release of the XBOX 360 Elite does preclude the release of an HDMI add-on in the future.  As long as MS believes there is a demand for such an item, I am sure it will see the light of day!!!
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 Last edited: by Calidain
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
The release of the XBOX 360 Elite does preclude the release of an HDMI add-on in the future.  As long as MS believes there is a demand for such an item, I am sure it will see the light of day!!!

If you are talking about the HDMI accessory that MS said was coming last year, it's not possible on the current Xbox 360.  Read the second paragraph down.  MS leaked lies to Xbox 360 owners (myself included) knowing the whole time they couldn't even do it.  Just lie and lie to get your consumers to the next stop.  Don't worry...they'll believe us.  Then, stick them with a $480 additional price tag if they want HDMI.  They'll pay it.  It's really amazing how well they can play people.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBad Father
Registered: July 23, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 4,594
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
The release of the XBOX 360 Elite does preclude the release of an HDMI add-on in the future.  As long as MS believes there is a demand for such an item, I am sure it will see the light of day!!!

If you are talking about the HDMI accessory that MS said was coming last year, it's not possible on the current Xbox 360.  Read the second paragraph down.  MS leaked lies to Xbox 360 owners (myself included) knowing the whole time they couldn't even do it.  Just lie and lie to get your consumers to the next stop.  Don't worry...they'll believe us.  Then, stick them with a $480 additional price tag if they want HDMI.  They'll pay it.  It's really amazing how well they can play people.


Blah, blah, blah, blah...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantmnemo
Zuma!
Registered: March 17, 2007
Germany Posts: 82
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Quoting MattyJames:
Quote:
I think the Track Packs are a little overpriced but i will probably buy a few of them as they are released. 

Traitor! These packs must be avoided by all cost (excuse the pun), since they are WAY too expensive. Sign the petition against this rip-off!

If they release ALL 47 songs from GH1 it will cost you $98 to download them all. That's $98 on top of the game you bought for $90 that INCLUDES a cool controller AND 70 tracks!

As a side note, there will be a patch out in a few weeks adressing the whammy bar problem some people experience with their controllers (like I do).
Samsung UE55C6200, Yamaha RX-V2067, Xbox 360, PS3.
MattyJames
Registered: March 19, 2007
Posts: 18
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It's pretty ridiculous. I did NOT end up buying any of the track packs after reconsidering the cost. I also signed the petition that you posted.    I will refuse/resist!!!!

....At least until some songs come out that i REALLY want. -lol-
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCalidain
You're no Daisy at all!
Registered: March 16, 2007
Posts: 405
Posted:
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
The release of the XBOX 360 Elite does preclude the release of an HDMI add-on in the future.  As long as MS believes there is a demand for such an item, I am sure it will see the light of day!!!

If you are talking about the HDMI accessory that MS said was coming last year, it's not possible on the current Xbox 360.  Read the second paragraph down.  MS leaked lies to Xbox 360 owners (myself included) knowing the whole time they couldn't even do it.  Just lie and lie to get your consumers to the next stop.  Don't worry...they'll believe us.  Then, stick them with a $480 additional price tag if they want HDMI.  They'll pay it.  It's really amazing how well they can play people.


Interesting, I read this article and I didn't see any OFFICIAL announcement from Microsoft saying that HDMI is not possible on the current XBOX 360, and I admit I know nothing about this so-called unbias web news site, so clearly they are being 100% accurate right??? 
My Collection!!!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
Posted:
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Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
The release of the XBOX 360 Elite does preclude the release of an HDMI add-on in the future.  As long as MS believes there is a demand for such an item, I am sure it will see the light of day!!!

If you are talking about the HDMI accessory that MS said was coming last year, it's not possible on the current Xbox 360.  Read the second paragraph down.  MS leaked lies to Xbox 360 owners (myself included) knowing the whole time they couldn't even do it.  Just lie and lie to get your consumers to the next stop.  Don't worry...they'll believe us.  Then, stick them with a $480 additional price tag if they want HDMI.  They'll pay it.  It's really amazing how well they can play people.


Interesting, I read this article and I didn't see any OFFICIAL announcement from Microsoft saying that HDMI is not possible on the current XBOX 360, and I admit I know nothing about this so-called unbias web news site, so clearly they are being 100% accurate right??? 

No.  This is not official.  You won't see anything official concerning this from MS, but then again I'm sure you knew that already.  But, I can give you some info on the ANA (analog) scaler.  This will be about as close as you will get to an official announcement.

But, let's say a HDMI accessory is possible.  The fact that they haven't produced it would be even worse.  They would rather let you purchase an almost $500 console to get HDMI than let you purchase a $100 accessory.  So, either way you are looking at an unconcerning attitude towards their customer base.  That's still the old "they'll pay it" attitude.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBad Father
Registered: July 23, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 4,594
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
No.  This is not official.  You won't see anything official concerning this from MS, but then again I'm sure you knew that already.  But, I can give you some info on the ANA (analog) scaler.  This will be about as close as you will get to an official announcement.

But, let's say a HDMI accessory is possible.  The fact that they haven't produced it would be even worse.  They would rather let you purchase an almost $500 console to get HDMI than let you purchase a $100 accessory.  So, either way you are looking at an unconcerning attitude towards their customer base.  That's still the old "they'll pay it" attitude.


Blah, blah, blah blah...
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorschultzy
Xbox Live: squeekyfoot
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 550
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Sony anounced they are discontinuing through 20GB version of the PS3.

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/674733/Bon_Voyage_20_GB_Playstation_3.html
Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
grenactics - The art of skillfully fraggin one’s opponent with the use of grenades or other compact explosive devices that are thrown by hand or projected.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting schultzy:
Quote:
Sony anounced they are discontinuing through 20GB version of the PS3.

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/674733/Bon_Voyage_20_GB_Playstation_3.html

This will probably be a collector's item now!  I'm gonna try to find one to keep on ice for a couple decades.

I understand why they discontinued the 20GB.  Most people wanted the 60GB with the 3 extra features for only $100 more (Wi-Fi, media card reader, and 40GB more storage space).
To err is human...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgraymadder
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 103
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:

Remember, HDMI 1.3 wasn't even out before the PS3 was launched.  It wasn't easy to add HDMI 1.3.  Sony had to pioneer the quality control procedures for HDMI 1.3.  That's not an quick thing.  On the other hand, HDMI 1.1 was out way before the Xbox 360 launched, but yet they did not include it.

HDMI was out for some time before the Xbox 360.  A delay, if any, should have been minimal for a product that was already established as a well implemented standard interface in HDTVs.


It's interesting that you cite only certain portions of articles. As I quoted you saying how hard it was for Sony to implement HDMI 1.3 on the PS3 and it should have been minimal for MS to include HDMI 1.2 on the 360. Well according to the article you quoted in your last post (http://thoughthead.com/?p=46)

it says:

Why wasn’t the HDMI port included in the first place?
Timing. The Xbox 360 was finished and already in manufacturing before the HDMI spec was finalized. Never mind how much it would cost to implement extra bleeding edge technology at the last minutes. While true that HDMI was first introduced in 2002 the HDMI 1.3 spec and subsequent HDMI 1.3a spec were not finalized until 2006 meaning that until November 2006 (a whole 12 days before the Xbox 360’s launch) the state of HDMI was in flux. As for cost the scaler was essentially an off the shelf part that MS owned originally designed in their WebTV division. A complete redesign from the ground up of the scaler would have added significant cost and pushed out the already aggressive launch time line. Not to mention they would have had to implement, at latest 2005’s version of the spec (HDMI 1.2 and 1.2a) as production was already started by the time version 1.3 was released in 2006.

Considering that HD-DVD was dropped as a standard feature in the console (also due to it not being ready in time for the Xbox 360’s launch) there really wasn’t much benefit to including HDMI; HDCP was no longer required. Beside the fact that only a small portion of the game buying population own HDTVs, and that only a small portion of HDTV owners had HDMI ports, even a smaller amount of people are capable of discerning the differences between an analog signal over component or VGA versus a digital signal over HDMI when administered the Pepsi challenge. Home Theater buffs and videophiles aside most people don’t understand the fundamental differences between component and HDMI nevermind actually noticing the differences they offer in picture fidelity. That’s not even considering that any digital video system implemented in the Xbox 360 would most likely be low budget to keep costs down leading one to question: would HDMI offer any quality boost at all?

By the way that was an interesting article to read. A lot of good points.

It's funny it sounds like I am a pro 360 and anti PS3, but really I like both consoles. I enjoy debating. I have learned alot about the PS3 and the 360 just from these posts. I just believe it is best not to buy a console until after it has been out for a year. I don't want to be the final Beta testers and find all the last minute bugs. It was true for the 360, many consoles overheated. What will the PS3 have problems with?
 Last edited: by graymadder
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgraymadder
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 103
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It seems that both Sony and MS don't make any money from the consoles themselves, but from accessories and software. So if this is true why not make a universal console and then they can all develop games for one console? This would be best for the consumer, but I bet this will never happen. Because consumers interests are not their interests. I bet if something like this were to happen it would end up like the HD dvd format wars.

.....

An HDMI question. It seems like HDMI is in a constant state of change, so if you buy hardware (HD DVD BluRay and Reciever, and TV) that is say 1.3a compliant and 1.4 comes out, can you upgrade your hardware to this new revision?
 Last edited: by graymadder
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting graymadder:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:

Remember, HDMI 1.3 wasn't even out before the PS3 was launched.  It wasn't easy to add HDMI 1.3.  Sony had to pioneer the quality control procedures for HDMI 1.3.  That's not an quick thing.  On the other hand, HDMI 1.1 was out way before the Xbox 360 launched, but yet they did not include it.

HDMI was out for some time before the Xbox 360.  A delay, if any, should have been minimal for a product that was already established as a well implemented standard interface in HDTVs.


It's interesting that you cite only certain portions of articles. As I quoted you saying how hard it was for Sony to implement HDMI 1.3 on the PS3 and it should have been minimal for MS to include HDMI 1.2 on the 360. Well according to the article you quoted in your last post (http://thoughthead.com/?p=46)

it says:

Why wasn’t the HDMI port included in the first place?
Timing. The Xbox 360 was finished and already in manufacturing before the HDMI spec was finalized. Never mind how much it would cost to implement extra bleeding edge technology at the last minutes. While true that HDMI was first introduced in 2002 the HDMI 1.3 spec and subsequent HDMI 1.3a spec were not finalized until 2006 meaning that until November 2006 (a whole 12 days before the Xbox 360’s launch) the state of HDMI was in flux. As for cost the scaler was essentially an off the shelf part that MS owned originally designed in their WebTV division. A complete redesign from the ground up of the scaler would have added significant cost and pushed out the already aggressive launch time line. Not to mention they would have had to implement, at latest 2005’s version of the spec (HDMI 1.2 and 1.2a) as production was already started by the time version 1.3 was released in 2006.

Considering that HD-DVD was dropped as a standard feature in the console (also due to it not being ready in time for the Xbox 360’s launch) there really wasn’t much benefit to including HDMI; HDCP was no longer required. Beside the fact that only a small portion of the game buying population own HDTVs, and that only a small portion of HDTV owners had HDMI ports, even a smaller amount of people are capable of discerning the differences between an analog signal over component or VGA versus a digital signal over HDMI when administered the Pepsi challenge. Home Theater buffs and videophiles aside most people don’t understand the fundamental differences between component and HDMI nevermind actually noticing the differences they offer in picture fidelity. That’s not even considering that any digital video system implemented in the Xbox 360 would most likely be low budget to keep costs down leading one to question: would HDMI offer any quality boost at all?

By the way that was an interesting article to read. A lot of good points.

It's funny it sounds like I am a pro 360 and anti PS3, but really I like both consoles. I enjoy debating. I have learned alot about the PS3 and the 360 just from these posts. I just believe it is best not to buy a console until after it has been out for a year. I don't want to be the final Beta testers and find all the last minute bugs. It was true for the 360, many consoles overheated. What will the PS3 have problems with?

Actually, I said HDMI 1.1, which my statement still holds true.  HDMI 1.2 would have been hard for them to implement, but as the article said HDMI spec was introduced in 2002.  MS seems to have no real excuse for not including it.

As far as the HDMI 1.3 benefits, I put that in an earlier post at the bottom of page 6.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
 Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
Posted:
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Quoting graymadder:
Quote:
It seems that both Sony and MS don't make any money from the consoles themselves, but from accessories and software. So if this is true why not make a universal console and then they can all develop games for one console? This would be best for the consumer, but I bet this will never happen. Because consumers interests are not their interests. I bet if something like this were to happen it would end up like the HD dvd format wars.

.....

An HDMI question. It seems like HDMI is in a constant state of change, so if you buy hardware (HD DVD BluRay and Reciever, and TV) that is say 1.3a compliant and 1.4 comes out, can you upgrade your hardware to this new revision?

Actually, Sony makes a lot of money from their consoles by the end of their lifespans.  Both of the PS models before this one has sold over 100 million units.  They are making tons of money off the PS2 right now, because of software sales coupled with hardware sales.  MS and Sony would not be able to work together on a gaming console.  MS is in favor of a closed system while Sony is in favor of an open system.  That is a big core difference.  There would be no solid base to build from.

HDMI has been in a constant state of flux.  That is why they created HDMI 1.3 (it was going to be named 2.0 but the group changed their minds at the last minute).  There is really no difference between HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 feature wise.  That is not so, for HDMI 1.3.  This one was created to be viable longer than the others (HDMI 1.1/1.2).

Depending on what new functionality comes about after DEEP COLOR and advanced audio codec pass-through will determine whether the PS3 would be able to provide that functionality, but most likely it would be upgradable to a HDMI 1.4 or 2.0 should it come around within the next 6 years or so.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
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