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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next
Using Dividers for Cast
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Then if we are making Rules for the program as it ius NOW, the search function is a strictly LOCAL issue that has no impact on the Online. In short it follow As credited to the letter now. I create profiles for the Online not for YOU or anyone else, YOUR Profile is your business.

Skip


Except the rules tell you to enter a role even if one isn't listed in the credtis...

If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use another source to identify the role. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.

There is an associated role here, it just happens to be in a header.  Even if it wasn't in the header, the rules tell you to enter a role.  Nowhere in the rules does it say to leave them blank. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 3,479
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Rick:

You brought up the Search issue, not me. Search is not my problem there is no search Online.

Skip

The functionality of the program is indeed our responsibility to address. The "Online" that you refer to is the master database from which we all obtain profile data for use in the program. It makes sense that the data we receive from the master database should be funtional with the program.

These dividers have been used as the role name before this version of the program.

If we now declare that bit of the credits to ONLY be a divider, what is the role name?

Do we also list this bit of the credits as the role name?

If we say that we can't list this data as the role, what do we list as the role?

We have no rule provision for keeping the role name empty. If we don't use this data in the role, we leave it open for user-created role names ("use another source" as the rules say). It would seem to me that putting the data in both places is the best way to ensure as-credited, otherwise, you leave the role open for somethinge else.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKinematics
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 280
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I agree with Unicus.  I don't like the idea of using dividers to identify roles. A blank entry in an actor search to me indicates an uncredited role, not a "possibly credited but you'll have to look at that specific DVD entry to be sure" role.  That also becomes more of a hindrance when you're already using dividers as dividers.

A large portion of anime (which will have dividers for language, and subdividers for episodes) has some amount of Additional Voices cast listings, occasionally rather long (10-20 credits), and often written as an Additional Voices header followed by the cast in question.

This suggestion would make subdividers which may or may not be present in any given episode have a different meaning than the rest of the dividers in the list.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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I have made my comments and they stand. I will make no further comments on this because I have had it and i will not even specify the specifics on that. GET TO WORK.

Skip
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I don't believe we should be doing this until the Rules are updated.

Currently, the only reference to "dividers" is in the TV Series section of the Rules where they are referred to as episode dividers.

Although it is an interesting use of dividers, and I like the idea of making the cast listing look like what's in the actual film credits, the Rules do not currently support it and the lack of a "role" entry for each cast name does create a problem when displaying all movies for an actor.

I would support using dividers in this way (only when such a divider actually exists in the film credits) along with "roles" once the Rules are updated.
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Currently, the only reference to "dividers" is in the TV Series section of the Rules where they are referred to as episode dividers.

We do have this piece in the regular cast area:

Quote:
Do not include artificial actor entries to act as separators between cast lists. (e.g. "--JAPANESE CAST--"), instead use the Divider feature for this.


Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
GET TO WORK.

I am at work.   
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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LOL, so now your PERSONAL PREFERENCE for how YOU want the data to appear takes precedence over the Rules, james and others

"rom the film credits only; list names exactly as they are in the credits"

The data is consistent with both On screen data AND the Rules, but you want to use a different interpretation and don't care about ther Rules, you want it they way you want it. DO IT and keep it local. FOLLOW THE RULES.

I dare you you to claim that my data is not as it is displayed EXACTLY as it appears in the film credits.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Currently, the only reference to "dividers" is in the TV Series section of the Rules where they are referred to as episode dividers.

We do have this piece in the regular cast area:

Quote:
Do not include artificial actor entries to act as separators between cast lists. (e.g. "--JAPANESE CAST--"), instead use the Divider feature for this.


Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
GET TO WORK.

I am at work.   


Yup, I missed that part.  However, it is a very specific reference and does not address use of dividers as applied in this particular case, so I still think the Rules should be updated to addresss this if the community agrees to use dividers for this purpose, which , as I said, I would support.
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
However, it is a very specific reference and does not address use of dividers as applied in this particular case, so I still think the Rules should be updated to addresss this if the community agrees to use dividers for this purpose, which , as I said, I would support.

I agree. Some additional guidance from the rules would be helpful.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Except the rules tell you to enter a role even if one isn't listed in the credtis...

If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use another source to identify the role. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.

There is an associated role here, it just happens to be in a header.  Even if it wasn't in the header, the rules tell you to enter a role.  Nowhere in the rules does it say to leave them blank. 

Instead of rolling your eyes, Unicus, perhaps you will show me where in the rules that you must enter a role.  I don't see it anwhere. The rule that says "If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use another source..." doesn't say you must do so.

How would you go about entering a role for an actor who is credited without one - and don't have any other source for the role he played?  Make one up?  Enter "actor" or "character?"

Methinks you are so eager to one-up Skip that you haven't thought out your argument so well.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
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DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:


Methinks you are so eager to one-up Skip that you haven't thought out your argument so well.


Except that in the this case the role name is right there in the credits.  You don't have to use any other source!

Are you suggesting that if the role is listed in the actual credits, that it is optional to enter it into DVDP?
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Common problem, Ken. They aren't interested in the actual logic or Rules, they are interested in trying to slam Skip to the ground for having the temerity to take a stand. i have seen it all too many times.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Hal:

Look at the movie,m there is NO ROLE in the credits, that is a device that we USED to use instead of dividers (which we didn't have) to accomodate listings such as this. before you are going to argue you need to actually VIEW the credits.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorlyonsden5
Hello old friends!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Common problem, Ken. They aren't interested in the actual logic or Rules, they are interested in trying to slam Skip to the ground for having the temerity to take a stand. i have seen it all too many times.

Skip

As I said in the Rules committee forum you can't turn this on us (unless we let you). You and I started this discussion last night very politely (well I did  ) once things turned a way in which you didn;t like you start with the "everyone's against it because it's me" routine.

I hope everyone can ignore those references and stay on topic this time.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Rick:

The one thing you have overlooked is that the data is consistent with both the Rules and the On Screen data. That is inarguable and to attempt to do otherwise, would be simply foolish. So this does indeed all boil down to a desire to see the data in some form that is not consistent with "list names exactly as they are in the credits". And I am sorry my friend, I don't buy it. I told you last night if i had to write something defining a divider I couldn't, I know one when I see it. This is not about defining a divider, this is simply about how you want the data to appear which is a totally different premise and goes against the rules.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorNewEnglander
Registered: 11/13/2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
Quoting Touti:
Quote:
I like the idea, I wish I had thought of that actually .  I know it's another discussion but I think the same logic could applys in the crew section to start entering units........noooooooooooooooo please don't shoot me all at the same time 


If you break up the crew using dividers it breaks them apart.  Then you really can't do as credited in the order they are credited.  Since most unit crews fall somewhere in the middle of the end credits.  Let's concentrate on getting the main crew before going down the road of unit crews. We still have a large number of profiles that only have the director.



That makes little sense. The crew listing is already out of order. Some sound crew are credited before other crew members in different sections.

Unless the crew listing is made to look like the cast listing, not grouped by section, it will never be in order.
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