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Ignorance is bliss
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,010
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Ignorance is bliss, or so they say. If you think that's true when it comes to your DVD collection, then this is a cautionary tale for you.

I was looking at some older profiles, and noticed than some of them had very rudimentary crew information, often just director. So I thought I would see which ones needed fixing. I turned to my trusty know-your-collection tool (i.e. ProfilerQuery). I added a few selection criteria to filter out profiles that did not interest me, Television, Documentaries and a few others. And I ended up with this:



That should give me a manageable set of profiles to fix. Or so I thought. Holy crap! I actually got over 200 profiles.  At this point I could have walked away and said "Forget about it!" But of course I couldn't. So I added ^e!w as a command in the settings for ProfilerQuery. That would take me directly to the Profiler crew page when I double clicked an entry is the query result. I also started DJ Doena's Cast/Crew Edit, and I went to work.

I gathered crew info from IMDb for all those profiles. I tagged the profiles, marking that they have data from IMDb, so I wouldn't inadvertently contribute them before verifying the crew info against the actual credits. Even with the help of these tools, this took quite a bit of time. But eventually I got it done.

Now I checked how many profiles I had tagged as containing IMDb data. It wasn't just the ones that I had just worked on. I had quite a few others that I had added from IMDb earlier. So a quick check revealed that 334 (!) profiles contained IMDb data. No way am I going to dig out all 334 DVDs (or Blurays) and watch their credits to check them against the profiles. But on the other hand I can't just ignore all of them either. Just deciding which ones to fix will be a headache in itself, even before starting the fixing.

So if you have a large collection (like me), and you're a bit OCD about the details, beware! Ignorance is bliss!
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
Netherlands Posts: 5,899
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Ha! Ignorance is bliss, indeed. More and more I'm convinced the DVD format will be dead and buried before we get around to fixing all profiles we own that need fixing.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorcvermeylen
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Belgium Posts: 1,943
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You might want to post a list, some profiles may have been verified in other localities. You could copy cast & crew from those. That is if people are willing to confirm which profiels they audited. Would save you a sh*tload of time...
View my collection at http://www.chriskepolis.be/home/dvd.htm

Chris
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwidescreenforever
Under A Double DoubleW
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Canada Posts: 5,366
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agree with cvermeylen ..

you could have a title that is saved in all formats and all localities that is i.e. say 20 upc codes of the very  same title.. one of the titles ( yours) is not up to date  just copy and paste from a saved profile and make sure you make note of what upc you got the info from ..  9 out 10 times it gets approved ..

I do this quite often for new blue titles of an old Movie title .. and to to do all  that work for one title that is already approved 19 times already else where is the way to go..

if a member has an issue with it and votes no .,  I hope that member takes it upon themselves to then make the correct contribution ..
In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.

Terry
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantmovie_madness
Registered: August 7, 2007
Posts: 78
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A lot of other catalog programs have BUILT-IN link to IMDb, and it is sad that the best program of its kind, DVD Profiler, doesn't.  The Cast&Crew 2 plugin is nice, but as mentioned earlier, it is not much of a time-saver as it still requires a lot of mouse-clicks and copying-and-pasting.  In the early 2000s, when DVD Profiler came out and IMDb was still in its relative infancy and not very reliable, ignoring IMDb would seem like a smart move, but now it seems just dumb now.  Like it or not, IMDb is the most complete database of its kind though not 100% perfect.  But imagine what a time-saver it would've been had DVDP had it built-in.  Having 100% curated info collected by real humans is nice, but how is it working out exactly after all these years?  DVDP would be long dead (and we too) and we still wouldn't achieve a satisfactory level of completeness of data.  I have LONG ditched DVDP in favor of a catalog program I designed myself which can import IMDb cast & crew automatically and effortlessly, saving humongous time while still having more complete info than most of you.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAlunH
Registered: February 19, 2012
United Kingdom Posts: 38
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Quoting movie_madness:
Quote:
Like it or not, IMDb is the most complete database of its kind though not 100% perfect.  But imagine what a time-saver it would've been had DVDP had it built-in.  Having 100% curated info collected by real humans is nice, but how is it working out exactly after all these years?  DVDP would be long dead (and we too) and we still wouldn't achieve a satisfactory level of completeness of data.  I have LONG ditched DVDP in favor of a catalog program I designed myself which can import IMDb cast & crew automatically and effortlessly, saving humongous time while still having more complete info than most of you.
I watch a lot of old TV and I like the database to be complete.  If it's not, I'll submit a complete cast list to the database.  Sometimes the prints used for DVD have credits which can be difficult to read, and I'll then check what I *think* the correct spelling of a blurry character's name is against the IMDb.  I have yet to find a single listing which does not have at least one mistake in it.

I don't have a Blu-ray drive in my PC, so when I have to submit credits for a Blu-ray release, I'm reliant on taking pictures with my iPhone and then patiently transcribing them (time consuming and annoying, I know.  I really must get around to buying and fitting a BD drive).  Sometimes my iPhone doesn't take a perfect picture, and again I have to check the spelling of a character's name or actor's name to the IMDb.  Even with recent credits (the ones which the database confirms have been verified) I find mistakes in every single listing.

I'm happy to double-check a spelling of something against the IMDb, or to clarify a typo in an actor's name, but beyond that I wouldn't trust the IMDb's credits an inch.

I've contributed quite a lot of profiles, and I'd say that at least 1000 of my contributions have been complete cast lists for films and TV which I've very carefully checked against the actual credits of the series or film I'm submitting.  That's how having 100% curated information is working out - by some of us putting in a lot of work.

What we really need is a two-tier checking system for a complete cast list which, when verified, is shared across every UPC of that release across all regions.  User DarthFather, for instance, has just put a lot of effort into completing the listing for season five of Elementary.  If a second checker could verify it, there should be away to copy that information immediately across all releases and regions for the series.  That's the one thing that would save time.
 Last edited: by AlunH
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
Netherlands Posts: 5,899
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Hear hear!

IMDb may be fairly complete, it's also very inaccurate - not even mentioning the licensing issues related to using their database. DVD Profiler's license fee might be quite different (higher) if it were to use IMDb data.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 1,180
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Honestly, I'd pay a license fee just to get more frequent support, updates, and fixes.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
Netherlands Posts: 5,899
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... and rule updates and clarifications.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 4,047
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Yes, but not for an IMDb Interface: for Non-US movies the IMDb is still mere horror.
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantmovie_madness
Registered: August 7, 2007
Posts: 78
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Quoting AlunH:
Quote:
Quoting movie_madness:
Quote:
Like it or not, IMDb is the most complete database of its kind though not 100% perfect.  But imagine what a time-saver it would've been had DVDP had it built-in.  Having 100% curated info collected by real humans is nice, but how is it working out exactly after all these years?  DVDP would be long dead (and we too) and we still wouldn't achieve a satisfactory level of completeness of data.  I have LONG ditched DVDP in favor of a catalog program I designed myself which can import IMDb cast & crew automatically and effortlessly, saving humongous time while still having more complete info than most of you.
I watch a lot of old TV and I like the database to be complete.  If it's not, I'll submit a complete cast list to the database.  Sometimes the prints used for DVD have credits which can be difficult to read, and I'll then check what I *think* the correct spelling of a blurry character's name is against the IMDb.  I have yet to find a single listing which does not have at least one mistake in it.

I don't have a Blu-ray drive in my PC, so when I have to submit credits for a Blu-ray release, I'm reliant on taking pictures with my iPhone and then patiently transcribing them (time consuming and annoying, I know.  I really must get around to buying and fitting a BD drive).  Sometimes my iPhone doesn't take a perfect picture, and again I have to check the spelling of a character's name or actor's name to the IMDb.  Even with recent credits (the ones which the database confirms have been verified) I find mistakes in every single listing.

I'm happy to double-check a spelling of something against the IMDb, or to clarify a typo in an actor's name, but beyond that I wouldn't trust the IMDb's credits an inch.

I've contributed quite a lot of profiles, and I'd say that at least 1000 of my contributions have been complete cast lists for films and TV which I've very carefully checked against the actual credits of the series or film I'm submitting.  That's how having 100% curated information is working out - by some of us putting in a lot of work.

What we really need is a two-tier checking system for a complete cast list which, when verified, is shared across every UPC of that release across all regions.  User DarthFather, for instance, has just put a lot of effort into completing the listing for season five of Elementary.  If a second checker could verify it, there should be away to copy that information immediately across all releases and regions for the series.  That's the one thing that would save time.


By "complete," I mean having a good percentage of titles with cast & crew.  Your efforts would merely yield a *small* percentage of titles with supposedly accurate cast & crew.  And that is not what most people think "complete" means.  And your percentage shrinks every year due to fewer and fewer contributors and more and more new titles every year.  In other words, the data become *more and more incomplete* every year.  There is no point denying such an obvious thing.  This is how Leonard Maltin had to end his movie guide with his supposedly accurate curated info.  The 30,000 titles in his book, no matter how accurate the data and how diligent he was able to keep with curating the data, are no match to the millions of titles at IMDb.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAlunH
Registered: February 19, 2012
United Kingdom Posts: 38
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I'm not denying it, I'm just stating that the IMDb is so far from perfect that it's not really that much use at all.  As AiAustria says, it's not too bad for US titles, but the second the spoken language isn't English then the database might as well not exist, because it's riddled with errors.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 3,705
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IMDB is a good starting point, but like others have said it's far from perfect. Many errors or even missing people in either the cast or crew.

But even our database is far from perfect.

Even within the same locality one profile for the same movie will be more complete than another. Or have less errors than another.

I do wish that DVDP would move to a one movie for all profiles approach instead of many profiles for one movie approach.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 3,705
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Quoting AlunH:
Quote:

What we really need is a two-tier checking system for a complete cast list which, when verified, is shared across every UPC of that release across all regions.  User DarthFather, for instance, has just put a lot of effort into completing the listing for season five of Elementary.  If a second checker could verify it, there should be away to copy that information immediately across all releases and regions for the series.  That's the one thing that would save time.


Would that be a screener or do you think something like that should be voted on by us, the users?

If voted on my the users, then I guess which one got the most votes as being the most complete and/or error free would be the chosen one to be the basis for all releases.

But one question that arises, how often should something like that be voted on. Just once, or again after a year or so?
 Last edited: by CubbyUps
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 4,047
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If there would be a working data base design, which allows such a "one cast/crew block for all releases of a single movie" approach, then all cast/crew contributions for this single movie would end up in all profiles of this movie. This means, that there would not be a voting (at least not after an initial selection of the one cast/crew block to be used for each single movie), but a much broader user base contributing to the same cast/crew block per movie.

And, yes, no bashing needed, I'm well aware, that this is not as simple as sharing a cast/crew block per movie. It would need a complete data base redesign.
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,450
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Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
It would need a complete data base redesign.

This has been discussed for more than 10 years and we never saw it. I'm sure it will never happen. And we have more important things to solve than "accuracy" of credits : linking of "same actor/different names", and non linking of "same name/different actors".
Credits do not always represent reality (= who really played or worked in the movie), so recopying them exactly is of little interest. And even when they are correct, we transform them with Invelos rules (change letters), and introduce errors that they have not, making them incorrect...
IMDb gives correct linking and generally correct names. Even with its errors, it is far more correct than our mess (cannot call it a database).
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 Last edited: by surfeur51
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