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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Please take note that she did not as north , put it nixed the idea. The phrase she used was in general

Clearly some of you have not bothered to read and comprehend the things I have said. So Will discuss it one final time.

This is a TEAM effort, the whole process regardless of region.
I have stated a hypothesis that I believe Hollywood (note I am not saying, Tokyo, Hong Kong or any of the other areas where I KNOW such problems exist)does not issue separate credit lists depending on where it is playing.  Inherit the Wind US=Inherit the Wind everywhere. This is my working hypothesis, and as such I also recognize that it MIGHT be wrong, and by the way thus far I have seen no indication that it is wrong, but it is early yet. As teammantes I want all you to please tell me if you discover some form of Regional variation in the Credits. I have installed a program here to trrack such information for me and I will eventually be able to get a feel for how prevalent such variations might be, that will determine the future of what i do. I also have a ton of safeguards which I employ, that I will not detail, that will help minimize errors such as replacing a legitimately documented Alias or (uncredited) data. Like i said this is not something that is a snap decision, it is something I have been tinkering for several months now. Some of you seem uniterested in teamwork to try and better the data for everybody and are content with erroneous data and so-so quality of the database, to thoise of you whose sole interest is to complain, I say fine, I have heard you and you have revealed far more about yourself than I care to know about. I will be more than happy to periodically report my findings as well.

To those users that want to join my hand and help build a better product, I say welcome, we have a big job to do. The best database we can humanly create is my ONLY goal.

Let me add that if my research did not give a high degree of confidence that my hypothesis was correct, then I would not even worry about trying to tackle this.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgoodguy
Sita Sings the Blues
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 1,029
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
As teammantes I want all you to please tell me if you discover some form of Regional variation in the Credits. I have installed a program here to trrack such information for me

Please share the program with the community.

Quote:
I also have a ton of safeguards which I employ, that I will not detail, that will help minimize errors such as replacing a legitimately documented Alias or (uncredited) data.

Why not reveal your safeguards? Surely they would help all users in avoiding possible pitfalls.
Matthias
 Last edited: by goodguy
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Mathias:

I have seen little support from the community for what I try to do on behalf of this Community, the abuse, baiting and so forth I receive does not exactly warm my heart. This to the point that several times I have tried to STOP Contributing, unfortunately for me despite my frustration I am concerned about the community and this attempt to build what has tthe potential a truly dynamite database without peer, to those of you who think DVDProfiler is the best, what I see with what Ken is doing and the potential I can only echo Al Jolson, you ain't seen nothing yet.

I don't think my program would be of any use to anyone. And as for my safeguards, for the moment at least I will keep them proprietary. I have been very generous already with the work that I do, to the point that when I think about it I call myself names. I hope that you will understand, Mathias.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 1,807
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Quoting goodguy:
Quote:

I just hope that doesn't mean I now have to look forward to another 10 pages of this thread arguing about the phrase "In general we don't recommend".


Well, it speaks for itself. I think that was a wise statement and a word of caution, but didn't say a No No. Anyway, Skip will find out soon whether his "Source R1" contributions get approved or declined.
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
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Quoting goodguy:
Quote:
Quoting Gerri Cole:
Quote:
In general we don't recommend submitting cast and crew for DVDs that you don't own because there can be discrepancies between localities, editions, and cuts (for example) and it can be difficult to validate without actually owning the DVD.


Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Thanks, Gerri.


I just hope that doesn't mean I now have to look forward to another 10 pages of this thread arguing about the phrase "In general we don't recommend".


I doubt that there will be 10 pages about that phrase.  I am quite confident it will be completely ignored.  Nothing, short of a direct statement from Ken that this is not to happen, will stop this train from moving forward.

I am not, however, looking forward to the fight that will come up when, for example, a credit of "FRANCOIS", in a French profile, is changed from 'François' to ''Francois'. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Unicus:

That is simple we ahve a way to handle that it's called the Common Name or Alias. The diacritical does not appear ON Screen so from an As Credited viewpoint...<shrugs> If the Alias has been used I see no problem.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,202
Posted:
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Unicus:

That is simple we ahve a way to handle that it's called the Common Name or Alias. The diacritical does not appear ON Screen so from an As Credited viewpoint...<shrugs> If the Alias has been used I see no problem.

Skip


I specified a French profile for a reason.  The rules say to use standard capitalization rules when credits are in all caps.  American capitalization rules are different than French capitalization rules.

For a US profile, you would use a 'c', because that is the standard lower case form of 'C'.  For a French profile, however, the standard is a little different.  Whether or not you use 'c' or 'ç' depends on the name in question.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
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Hmmmm, I follow the logic, Unicus, food for thought, for when I run into it. Thanks. Not sure I like it though, and feel free to help me here. We don't have a French, German, English, etc database which are ALL separated, we have ONE database, I think it reduces overall usability and affects issues such as the Credit Lookup Tool if everybody is running around doing their own thing if you will. Yes? No? Maybe?
Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,680
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Skip,

As far as I'm concerned, this isn't about how you personally do things. I am quite convinced that you will take every precaution not to introduce errors in your contributions.

What bothers me, as I have stated before, is the precedence you are setting. If you can do it, anyone can do it. And as you know, there are lots of users who are not as diligent in their research as you are.

Gerri's statement, unfortunately, is of very little help there. It's too open for interpretation, and there is no guarantee that users will read this thread anyway.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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I understand your concerns, Gunnar and I don't have an answer for everything, I wish I did. My interest is only in constructive. IF I could beat you figuratively (assuming you were submitting some of what I see) into submission and KNOW that now that areas data has someone to watch over them, but I can't do that I could only dream about it. And if you tell me you like beatings, I am running.       This is the only workable plan I have been able to come up with and I have tried for months, while I have watched with an increasing level of frustration at what I am seeing. Does it have some risks, yes, everything does and I will do everything I can to mitigate them, for whatever it's worth to you the response I have received over the very little bit I have done has been overwhelmingly positive.

The overarching thing for me is that we have a problem, I have an idea for a fix that I pray works out for ALL of us. I am open to any ideas but, and please don't take this wrong, not hand-wringing. Perhaps after I have tested this to raise my confidence level relative to my hypothesis, I will feel like I can bring in some more users to be a more direct help, after all this is a major undertaking. But with me doing it for now, I can work to verify the hypothesis AND maintain tight control of the Project, along with hopefully shaking out kinks that might be run into.

I will say this, I will not remove any (uncredted), at least not deliberately but cordinating as many as 50 different is a little daunting, same is true of documented Aliases that have been established. I will also not establish any new Aliases for any such title, that is your job. There is one otable exception to Aliases, there is one area that the Program has a weakness which also affects the lookup Tool and for this function makes it virtually worthless and that is the inability of the Program to distinguish between upper and lower case elements and see them as separate datapoints. To try and make my life JUST a little bit easier, I will set that based on my data, if you want to correct it later be my guest. The program will see Comte de Guerre and Comte De Guerre  as the same thing. <shrugs> My data maybe Comte De Guerre and credit as de so I would catch that as Comte De Guerre (Comte de Guerre), that is simply to capture the On Screen data, I hope that Ken fixes that for the next beta but it has been an issue for a long time.Hopefully by at least capturing that specific type of On Screen data, when Ken fixes it it will not easy but relatively so to bring it intoline so that we can properly utilize the Lookup Tool. Bear with me, I have given this a lot of thought and I want it to work but if my hypothesis is wrong I would hope to discover it quickly

And I think Rho's comment relative to Legacy Profiles has some real merit, so I won't be touching those. I would like to figure something out about those because I think a large percentage of those Profiles probably should be removed, but I have a more than full plate already and I am not qualified or at least not comfortable to make that call. Well see, Gunnar I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,680
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It's not that I don't see the problem, although I may not feel it is as serious as you do but that's another matter.

I'm just concerned that the cure may be worse than the disease. Or rather, the possible side effects of the cure.

As long as you understand my concerns I think we can agree to disagree on the rest, and let it rest at that.

I would still be much more at ease if Ken would modify the rules to specify exactly what changes may be made to the profile of a DVD that you don't own, and how those changes should be verified.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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Quoting goodguy:
Quote:
Quoting Gerri Cole:
Quote:
In general we don't recommend submitting cast and crew for DVDs that you don't own because there can be discrepancies between localities, editions, and cuts (for example) and it can be difficult to validate without actually owning the DVD.

I just hope that doesn't mean I now have to look forward to another 10 pages of this thread arguing about the phrase "In general we don't recommend".

I think she meant we should only use cast and crew from other profiles if you want to create or adjust profiles for upcoming or just released versions, not as a source to correct old profiles.

This to start up the discussion for the next 9 pages...
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Unicus:

That is simple we ahve a way to handle that it's called the Common Name or Alias. The diacritical does not appear ON Screen so from an As Credited viewpoint...<shrugs> If the Alias has been used I see no problem.

Skip

<skipnet50 mode>
I have told you several times that this is not true.
</skipnet50 mode>
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
For a US profile, you would use a 'c', because that is the standard lower case form of 'C'.  For a French profile, however, the standard is a little different.  Whether or not you use 'c' or 'ç' depends on the name in question.

No, this is also true for every locality as long as the persons's name is French. Or are you saying that in the USA foreign names are not written correctly?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
Posted:
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Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
For a US profile, you would use a 'c', because that is the standard lower case form of 'C'.  For a French profile, however, the standard is a little different.  Whether or not you use 'c' or 'ç' depends on the name in question.

No, this is also true for every locality as long as the persons's name is French. Or are you saying that in the USA foreign names are not written correctly?

No, he meant that the capitalization rules are different in each country and therefore we should not correct foreign profiles.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
 Last edited: by Daddy DVD
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
For an US profile, you would use a 'c', because that is the standard lower case form of 'C'.  For a French profile, however, the standard is a little different.  Whether or not you use 'c' or 'ç' depends on the name in question.

No, this is also true for every locality as long as the persons's name is French. Or are you saying that in the USA foreign names are not written correctly?

No, he meant that the capitalization rules are different in each country and therefore we should not correct foreign profiles.
Maybe, but he also said that in a US profile "C" would always be converted to "c".  And that would be wrong. "FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT" should be converted to "François Truffaut" in every locality because he is a French guy and his name is written with "ç". If the actual screen credit would be "Francois Truffaut" that would be a completely different matter. This would be simply an error in the credits and we do not correct errors.
 Last edited: by RHo
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