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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Nude Nuns with Big Guns |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
Yves, I'm sorry. Don't be sorry  . Anyway, everybody is right to post what he (she) thinks he (she) has to post. And other comments were made here about me that are far worse than what you wrote, but I'll certainly not answer to them. I still think the only thing to do about this case and all others which populate those forums is what I proposed in the past: to add a sentence to the introduction of the rules, something in the spirit of that: Rules have to be followed in almost all cases, but do not intend to propagate obvious errors, or typos. So correct documented data will always be preferred. This point supersedes all other rules....knowing that screeners are here to judge the documentation that proves the contributed data is correct. It's up to Ken to decide. Perhaps after all he considers that leaving problems in the rules brings life in the forums  | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Perhaps after all he considers that leaving problems in the rules brings life in the forums Maybe you are on something as we haven't had a multi-page topic for a while and the forum felt empty like if something was missing  | | | | Last edited: by Jimmy S |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 |  Posts: 824 |
| | Posted: | | | | Just to be clear I totally agree the title should be "Nude Nuns with Big Guns", but the rules as written and when followed to the letter don't allow for it.
If rules are to be followed to the letter in other cases then they must be here as well.
A group effort like the DVD Profiler online database needs leadership to step in and make a ruling in cases like this, which inevitably will come up. | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 824 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
the rule does not tell us to copy the title exactly from the front cover, it simply tells us to use the title from the front cover. I have no problem using the spine, or the credit block, to help me determine how that title should be entered. If that's not bending or twisting of the rule, I don't know what is. | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,685 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
the rule does not tell us to copy the title exactly from the front cover, it simply tells us to use the title from the front cover. I have no problem using the spine, or the credit block, to help me determine how that title should be entered.
If that's not bending or twisting of the rule, I don't know what is. Well, I happen to agree with TheMadMartian. The rules used to say "Take the title from the opening credits" or something similar. The reason this was changed, unless I'm mistaken, was that this created some confusion when the title in the credits was completely different from the title on the cover. The reason for this could be that the film was known under more than one title and the title in the credits was the lesser known title so the studio chose to use the better known title on the cover. Another reason could be that the film only had the original, foreign, title in the credits and a localized title on the cover. So the rule was changed to let us know which title to use, not how to format the title. So in the case of "Nude Nuns with Big Guns" the formatting on the cover is irrelevant. If the formatting is confusing, I would use the onscreen title as a guide. So, much as I dislike the playing with digits as letter, "Se7en" is correct, because that is the actual onscreen title (I just checked), although for my local it will always be "Seven". I don't own "Taxi 4", so I don't know the onscreen title. My personal interpretation of the cover title is that the second character is a stylized "A" and a "4" combined into one character. My preference is that titles should be entered the way they are supposed to be pronounced. So, unless the film is to be called "Tee-four-ix-aye", the actual title is "Taxi 4", not "T4xi". Anyway, the point of my post is that I believe that those who think that the "title from the front cover" rule tells us how to format the title, those people are mistaken. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: October 30, 2011 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,870 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Grendell: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
the rule does not tell us to copy the title exactly from the front cover, it simply tells us to use the title from the front cover. I have no problem using the spine, or the credit block, to help me determine how that title should be entered.
If that's not bending or twisting of the rule, I don't know what is. I disagree, since the bug "S" crossing and applyiing to two words cannot be represented in the text field the symbol rule tells us the order of alternate places to get the title |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 824 |
| | Posted: | | | | "S" is a letter not a symbol. | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Scooter1836: Quote:
...since the big "S" crossing and applyiing to two words ... Would you say that in this case the big 2, crossing two lines, apply to those two lines:  Is it "12 Hommes 12 en colère" ? Certainly not, I think we agree. So this big 2 is just a big 2, not a symbol, and the big S would not be a big S ? Or you prefer this one ? or this one ?   Once again, there is only common sense that gives the right answer for cover title in all cases. Strict application of rules will always be a nightmare. If rules had in their introduction a "Please, be intelligent when necessary" warning, how many threads as this one should we have avoided? | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am not saying I agree with them or if I agree with you... as I do see both sides of this... but even looking at it as a symbol...that would definitely not what you would end up with. As the rules tells us when symbols are being used to go to the credit block for the correct title. So even then you would still end up with the correct title... not "12 Hommes 12 en colère" It is like this... Looking at this cover...  The contributor asks himself... hey 21 is in front of both Jump and Street... is it a symbol meant for both words? Looks at the rules... sees symbol rule... does as rule states... and ends up with the correct 21 Jump Street. Same contributor looks at the thread's title... does the same thing... because thinks it is a symbol... does what the rules states and comes up with "Nude Nuns with Big Guns" So to be fair... what they are saying works correctly. Like I said... I don't know if I agree or disagree... but lets keep the facts straight on what they are saying. | | | | Pete | | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
| | Registered: October 30, 2011 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,870 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Scooter1836:
Quote:
...since the big "S" crossing and applyiing to two words ...
Would you say that in this case the big 2, crossing two lines, apply to those two lines:
Is it "12 Hommes 12 en colère" ? Certainly not, I think we agree.
So this big 2 is just a big 2, not a symbol, and the big S would not be a big S ?
Or you prefer this one ? or this one ?
Once again, there is only common sense that gives the right answer for cover title in all cases. Strict application of rules will always be a nightmare. If rules had in their introduction a "Please, be intelligent when necessary" warning, how many threads as this one should we have avoided? The one thing you have to recognize is the fact we are to "use" the cover. The cover is let's face it, cover art and an artistic rendition could be made. And in my mind when the artistic redition contains ambiguity like the Big S across two lines. The way it is written it cannot be represented in the text field so I look to the symbol rule, which gives the order of other areas to look at. Addicted gives some other examples. I am saying the rules account for the different artistic representations of characters. Now maybe some rewording needs to happen since some disagree that characters are not symbols, but they are if represented in a different artistic method that can give them nre meaning. That is how I see it and no matter what you are going to argue with it. | | | | Last edited: by Scooter1836 |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think we need to be careful. In the rules, it states "take the title from the cover". It however never states to duplicate the image on the cover.
WE have had decisions in both directions concerning input. 1 expressed as an exception(in the rules), and other expressed in the forums.
I do not think there has ever been a decision concerning "Se7en" or "T4Xi" (disagree with these). I have seen an expression about 007 from Gerri, but under the same breath stated that Ken may feel different. There have been rulings about Friends, Wall-E, I think MASH (same as Friends). I never saw 1 about Star Wars episode ??? with those stylized covers.
We really have to ask, what do we want in the title? Do we want some artistic rendering of what the title is? Or do we want the title of the release?
I think we can all agree that the release title is "Seven". There are numerous DVD/BD covers that say exactly that. A small percentage on the cover say "Se7en".
Taxi 4, we all know what that title is, but we insist on representing the graphical rendering on the cover. The discussion about Friends, was in my opinion ridiculous. M*A*S*H and J*A*G were more sensible (since they are acronyms). James Bond and discussion about Star Wars, 21 Jump Street, or Nude Nuns with Big Guns are a little overboard.
I think the intent of the rule, was to separate things like "There's Something About Mary" and "There's Something More About Mary", where there truly is a difference between the DVD Title and the Movie Title.
These opinions are mine and mine alone
Charlie |
| | Registered: October 30, 2011 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,870 |
| | Posted: | | | | What exactly do you mean as far as "release title"? The title of the DVD release or the movie title?
Well in the case of "Se7en" if you mean putting "Seven" in the title field, then we don't all agree. The DVD release title is " "Se7en" and the Original title is "Seven" because the title on the case differs from the actual movie just as "T4xi" has an original title of "Taxi 4" which allows all the searches to work correctly. In addition those can be displayed on the desktops as an optoin.
Just as your examples of "There's Something About Mary" and "There's Something More About Mary" also applies with the "Se7en" and "T4xi" situation, differences in the DVD Title and the movie title. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Actually se7en has been discussed before... and it seems that the credits on some releases is Seven but on some others it is Se7en... here is a screen cap of from the film of the edition I have...  | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 762 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Scooter1836:
Quote:
...since the big "S" crossing and applyiing to two words ...
Would you say that in this case the big 2, crossing two lines, apply to those two lines:
Is it "12 Hommes 12 en colère" ? Certainly not, I think we agree.
So this big 2 is just a big 2, not a symbol, and the big S would not be a big S ?
Or you prefer this one ? or this one ?
Once again, there is only common sense that gives the right answer for cover title in all cases. Strict application of rules will always be a nightmare. If rules had in their introduction a "Please, be intelligent when necessary" warning, how many threads as this one should we have avoided? Common sense does nothing here. A look at the credit block or the rest of the cover or ever the film credits will tell you what the title is. Again the artistic choice made by the manufacturer can't be reproduced in the title field. So simple. |
| | Registered: October 30, 2011 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,870 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Once again, there is only common sense that gives the right answer for cover title in all cases. Strict application of rules will always be a nightmare. If rules had in their introduction a "Please, be intelligent when necessary" warning, how many threads as this one should we have avoided?
That is not only condescending, but unnecessary. That would only cause more excuses to not follow the rules and more arguments. If a rule has ambiguities we should clarify them rather than give a blanket “my opinion is this” clause. If the rules fall short of a particular issue it should be discussed and corrected. Now I (and others) have an opinion where the rules do cover this issue, but you will never be satisfied until you get your exact way. Now you may not agree with my opinion that since the artistic representation of the title cannot be replicated that the symbol rule applies, but maybe there just needs to be more clarification or re-wording of that rule. |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheDarkKnight: Quote:
Common sense does nothing here. A look at the credit block or the rest of the cover or ever the film credits will tell you what the title is. We are not "allowed" to look at credit block or film credits if there are no symbols, which is the case here (as in "Nude Nun..."). "Use the title from the front cover""For titles which include periods, dashes, or other symbols, ..." cannot be applied in any of examples shown on this page. On my last examples, I see no symbols, and I do not hesitate since my "common sense" tells me what is the title. On Addicted2DVD example, I still see no symbol, and the use of colors may lead to "Jump 21 Street". Since there is no s in Street, I could open a poll to know which is the "cover title", but my common sense will suggest "21 Jump Street", which matches with rules. About "Nude Nun..." I still do not see any symbol, and the only solution is to choose where to put the S. If rules authorized to use common sense, I would immediately add a second s, but this is not allowed. | | | | Images from movies |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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