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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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I hope all you European people are right! |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | One of my biggest concerns is those users who dont really care about what is best for the community. Such as including a simple statement that they verified the clone data against the hard data they own. It is a useful note and informative, hopefully. Bit we have people who will not do this because ken does not say they have to, and they are simply following the policies of invelos. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
The guideline archive you refer to was the last One from 2005. I actually don't believe this is true. Thanks to Charlie, I have gone back and looked at some old posts. In one from April 8, 2005, I quoted a rule from the Guidelines concerning third party databases..."Do not use third party databases as sources for information. All information should come directly from the DVD"...and that line is not in the version on Doug's site. That tells me that he has archived an older version. Not sure how much older, but older for sure since the new 'rules' came out shortly after that.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Lets put it this way. I am not surprised you were not aware of the prohibition. O used the scraper to til I discovered it. Nobody else did either or blew it off. There were two users who did discover it and began a two year project to solve the issue, that ultimately became the rules. Why did no care about the prohibition, one of the infamous buzz phrases of the period, "they are guidelines, we dont HAVE to follow guidelines
"
Not that you have different recollection than, you have no recollection because you werent involved at that point. There is nothing for you to remember. DañE and myself worked out the general issurs, which were brought up by the buzz phrase and the prohibition. I.quickly stated auditing to film credits to find out how it worked and to get a feel for what issues might come up. If my memory is correct on this tiny bit of trivia, by the time we drafted the first version, I had already audited close to a thousand titles to film credit, so i felt at that point I had a pretty good feel for it, of course version One brought new issues with expanded crew data, previous to that we only dealt with director. So there were new things to learn. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | There's really no point in continuing this debate...you remember it your way, I remember it my way. All I will say, however, is that reading those old posts sure does bring back memories. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
As always, the info should be verified from the disc on hand, and not just blindly accepted.
Charlie
And the biggest offenders of this is the screeners who accept cast and crew on a pre-release profile. And then there are the people who contribute it, and never do an update edit when they get the DVD. By that time it has been cloned to multiple UPC's.
You must be careful with the blanket statement. I know that there are a couple of users that get dvd's/BD's before release date. I also know that they contribute these disks 1 to 2 weeks before I get them. By their statements, I have to believe they are taking the info from the discs.
If you do come across a profile, that you own, that has errors (from whatever source) correct it. The only thing that can do is make the DB more accurate for everybody.
Charlie There are some pre-release contributors who I see quite often that never do an update to the profile after it's initial contribution. I even do Title searches and find Profiles that have nothing but that 1st contribution, no cast, crew, features, audio, etc. Chances are that the UPC was changed before the release and they used a pre-release UPC. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Like i said martian for the time frame involved beginning in 2002 you have nothing to remember.. just like you have no knowledge of discussions between dan dnd myself, and our shared surprise that no one else deemed to have discovered this. I still dont know if it was something that had been a part of the guidelines and overlooked, or if it was a relatively new addition that we had stumbled upon. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quite possible, ateo, perhaps even likely. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Quite possible, ateo, perhaps even likely. I believe there are quite a few Profiles with imaginary UPC taking up space in the database. |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ateo357: Quote:
Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
Quite possible, ateo, perhaps even likely.
I believe there are quite a few Profiles with imaginary UPC taking up space in the database. I guess the question I have is this, If they are "pre-release" profiles with very limited info, what is the problem. They are not affecting your personal DB. Are you asking that pre-release profiles should not be contributed and accepted? What is your ultimate complaint or suggestion concerning these profiles? First you complain about cloned profiles in the db, now complaining about near blank profiles, so excuse me if I appear confused... Charlie |
| | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Quoting ateo357:
Quote:
Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
Quite possible, ateo, perhaps even likely.
I believe there are quite a few Profiles with imaginary UPC taking up space in the database.
I guess the question I have is this, If they are "pre-release" profiles with very limited info, what is the problem. They are not affecting your personal DB.
Are you asking that pre-release profiles should not be contributed and accepted?
What is your ultimate complaint or suggestion concerning these profiles?
First you complain about cloned profiles in the db, now complaining about near blank profiles, so excuse me if I appear confused...
Charlie It is just the main issues that stem from a pre-release, No way to verify the actual cast, crew or even if it is the UPC that ends up on the storeshelves. I have no problem with someone clonning a profile and making minor changes to there needs. But if you don't confirm it matches that specific release keep it to yourself and don't contribute it. I don't vote on cloned profiles or do I download them. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Like i said martian for the time frame involved beginning in 2002 you have nothing to remember.. Since I have been around since 2000, lurker until 2001, I don't know how you can say that. I have plenty to remember. Quote:
just like you have no knowledge of discussions between dan dnd myself, and our shared surprise that no one else deemed to have discovered this. I still dont know if it was something that had been a part of the guidelines and overlooked, or if it was a relatively new addition that we had stumbled upon. Obviously I have no knowledge of discussions between you and Dan as I was not there, but I still don't believe the guidelines ever mentioned IMDb by name. Having spent quite a bit of time, tonight, reading the old forums, I am even more convinced that I remember it correctly. If Ken, or anybody else, can provide a copy of the guidelines that show otherwise, I will happily admit my mistake. Until then, I am done with this conversation. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
I would have to strongly disagree on this point. Most submissions I see are honest and for the most part correct. Newcomers do make mistakes but voting or PM them usually takes care of business. And I would disagree again. I see that some users are as you describe. However, that is not always the case. Now, maybe I am seeing a lot of older contributions (as I slowly edit my collection or replace a DVD with BD) and therefore they're from a time when the rules weren't so clear (   ). But, that doesn't explain the pre-release profiles - people still insist on submitting data that they have no way of verifying. Why? Surely, all that's needed is the title, production year, release date and possibly a picture? I do a lot of contributions and, because I do a full audit each time, I probably see a lot more mistakes than other users who maybe only concentrate on specific areas of a profile because they are not interested in the rest. I realise that nothing I say is going to change things in this regard. I've been using the program since near the beginning and, as such, I have learned that nothing really changes around here. You make the best of it and get the best you can out of the program. As long as we have a 'user built' database we will never have a perfect database. What we need is an 'employee built' database. If Invelos employed people to do full audits on their discs maybe things would improve - I realise that is never going to happen though. For a long time I was all about everyone doing a full audit on a profile - but I realised that is being unfair and expecting too much. But, is it really too much to ask that whatever users choose to do they do it correctly? If you're not sure of a section then leave it alone. Don't add things from the back of the box without checking the disc (sound section especially). Use a spell-check on the overview. Don't add cast and crew without checking the credits. As yourself this: If someone continually got your name wrong would you eventually get annoyed? It's the same principal that I am suffering from. I've used this program long enough now to know that most users are well aware of what they should be doing and choose not to. Lastly I should point out that with a few exceptions my 'most users' does NOT refer to anyone in this forum. After all, this forum is NOT most users. We are a very vocal minority. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm currently working on the Die Hard Quadrilogy BD boxset - none of the Disc ID child profiles were in the db. It just so happens that another user was updating at exactly the same time.
Their contribution was cloned from another location and here's a list of some of the things that are wrong with it (and this was one of the better ones in the set):
Title - incorrect use of colon and capitalisation.
Rating Details - incorrect capitalisation.
Runtime incorrect (taken from box).
Incorrect use of actor's year of birth (3 of these) - listed as invalid in BY thread.
Spelling mistake in Overview (not on box).
Missing features.
Missing audio track
Incorrect use of Credited As (Not supported by CLT)
Incorrect role - did not match credits.
Incorrect actor name and use of BY for said actor.
Inclusion of Uncredited Cast that are identical to IMDB data without documentation to support their inclusion.
Inclusion of 'Sound' entry when a Production Sound Mixer is Credited.
Missing crew dividers.
Missing crew.
Incorrect studio.
Now, individually these are maybe not that bad (some are probably genuine mistakes); but taken as whole this is an atrocious submission/profile.
In my opinion, what this (or any other) user should have done is take each individual section and made sure it was correct. If they don't want to have to do through cast and crew to check the data then don't submit it. The same applies to ALL of these errors.
I'm sorry (and I know some people will take offense) but this is pure laziness in my opinion. This is someone who couldn't be bothered to take the extra time to check the profile before submitting. This is the type of person I would rather didn't contribute at all - OR - they stuck to only one or two aspects of a profile and made sure they got it right.
This person even tried to remove the data I had submitted and I did send a PM to this user to inform them - it was ignored.
This is just one profile; but this is the sort of thing I see all the time. Now, maybe if I didn't do full audits I wouldn't feel the way I do. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,685 |
| | Posted: | | | | Pantheon, Basically I agree with you, but... Using the runtime from the box IS allowed Quote:
Use the Running time specified on the DVD cover unless you can verify there is a discrepancy between that and the actual Running time. It doesn't say that you have to verify it, although I wish people did. Ths sound rules are damned confusing, so no wonder people get it wrong. Quote:
Sound Mixer (when listed outside the Sound credits) If there are a couple of sound credits here and another couple there and Sound Mixer is one of them, does that mean that it is inside or outside of the "Sound credits"? Rating details, well the rule is certainly not intuitive. I have probably violated it myself on some occasion when the rating details have been in standard case (only initial letter in the sentence in upper case) on the back cover. When everything else is "enter exactly as written" why should rating details be different. Because the rules say so, of course, but don't tell me it makes sense... Missing data; annoying, but not a rule violation. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Pantheon,
Basically I agree with you, but...
Using the runtime from the box IS allowed
Quote:
Use the Running time specified on the DVD cover unless you can verify there is a discrepancy between that and the actual Running time.
It doesn't say that you have to verify it, although I wish people did.
Ths sound rules are damned confusing, so no wonder people get it wrong.
Quote:
Sound Mixer (when listed outside the Sound credits)
If there are a couple of sound credits here and another couple there and Sound Mixer is one of them, does that mean that it is inside or outside of the "Sound credits"?
Rating details, well the rule is certainly not intuitive. I have probably violated it myself on some occasion when the rating details have been in standard case (only initial letter in the sentence in upper case) on the back cover. When everything else is "enter exactly as written" why should rating details be different. Because the rules say so, of course, but don't tell me it makes sense...
Missing data; annoying, but not a rule violation. Hi If you re-read my posts you will see that I am not implying that any of this is a rules violation. I'm well aware of the fact that they're not; just as I am well aware of what's in the contribution rules. What I am saying is that if you're going to do something then do it right. So, the rules may state that the box is an ok source for the runtime; but, if you're going to submit that information why not check the disc as well? I don't care if someone does a full audit or just one, single, solitary thing - as long as what they do is correct and they've checked it. I hope that's clearer now. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,685 |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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