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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What about this mess? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
Quoting DoubleDownAgain:
Quote:
I pm'd Gerri to request access to the Rules fourm, but haven't heard back. It was awhile ago, I can't tell you how long because it's been so long the PM was removed due to inactivity.
This has happened before - just send her another request or send a message and it should be taken care of. I figured as much, I already sent one. I understand how it might have sliped through the cracks.  | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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| | Registered: September 30, 2008 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,805 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
The difference Kathy, is that I am looking for ways to work within the rules, not try to poke holes in them to suit some personal agenda or other. I am naming no one but there are several such users. Even mire interesting is that these people who have poked enough holes to make the rules look like a wheell of jarlsberg, have little or no background or knowledge if how the rules were developed, why or anything else. They jus think they know, evenn one who likes to refer to ken could do this or that. Most of the rules are exactly as they were conceived and written years ago. Maybe that should tell something but it doesn't, those users who think they know have no idea and while I wish it were differentj, sadly many people will continue operating in a mist if their own making, oblivious to all but their own clyelessness. Makes me very sad.
Clearly the rest of you aren't qualified to speak to this issue. You "have little or no background or knowledge if how the rules were developed, why or anything else."
Fortunately, I was part of those stupid committees. From the very first one up to the new subforum here at the site. So I'm also fully qualified to give an opinion here. And I have to say I trust DJ. Fully and completely. Go for it. 
And since it's Christmas time, I'll go ahead and trust the rest of you too. Whether you helped design the rules or not.  This? Is awesome. That is all. | | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. |
| | Registered: November 25, 2012 |  Posts: 8 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm going to jump in on this topic and probably get my head handed back to me on a platter but here goes. As I am writing this post, I have the rules open in another window so I don't say something wrong.
Kathy, I agree with you. The rules do not specify which "third party databases" should not be used. Tell us what not to use (ex. IMDB, Amazon, etc.) and it will make it easier to contribute.
Second, I find it hard at times to trust the DVD and case info. For example, the credits on National Lampoon's Vacation lists the actors not their roles especially on the supporting cast--at least on the version that I own. If I had not looked at IMDB I would not have known that Brian Doyle-Murray was the desk clerk at Kamp Komfort or that Jane Krakowski played Cousin Vicki. The credits just listed their name and not the part. How many covers list the entire cast and crew of a movie?
I am not an attorney--just someone that must enforce rules all the time at my job. Over my 20 years of enforcing rules, the number one rule is to say what you mean and mean what you say. The person/people writing the rules must be specific enough so they can be easily understood, interpreted and applied. Sadly, in my opinion, the contribution rules are open to many different interpretations which can lead to confusion and in this case--anger.
Lastly, it should be the rules of the forums--all of them--to respect other users! There is absolutely no reason to publically berate someone because you disagree with them. If you disagree with a post--fine. Nicely state your reasons and leave the personal attacks out of it. If we must disagree, do so respectfully because we all want the same thing--good data for our software. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,685 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tvmangum: Quote:
The rules do not specify which "third party databases" should not be used. I beg to disagree. "Please don't submit content from a third party database" can only mean one thing; all third party databases are off limits. The only uncertainty is what exactly constitutes a "third party database". I think most of us here would agree with your sentiments regarding the behaviour in postings, and this has been said over and over, but there are - sadly - a select few individuals that just will not listen. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 71 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tvmangum: Quote:
Second, I find it hard at times to trust the DVD and case info. For example, the credits on National Lampoon's Vacation lists the actors not their roles especially on the supporting cast--at least on the version that I own. If I had not looked at IMDB I would not have known that Brian Doyle-Murray was the desk clerk at Kamp Komfort or that Jane Krakowski played Cousin Vicki. The credits just listed their name and not the part. How many covers list the entire cast and crew of a movie? You have to take the cast from the end credits of the movie. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | There is an exception for role names in the Credits rule... Rules Quote: Quote:
If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited. Going by the rules as they are written it is fine to take the role names from a third party database as long as you aren't doing a mass copy (copy all roles from one site) or if they have nothing against it in their usage license. Alternatively you can just leave the roles in profiler blank. Ken himself said that is perfectly acceptable as well. That is what I usually do myself. Then if someone else wants to fill it in that is ok too. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DigitalGhost: Quote:
You have to take the cast from the end credits of the movie. According to the rules and Ken's forum posts or contribution clarification thread, there are other places that Cast and or Crew may be taken: * "If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits." * "If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role." The rules go on to state that we are allowed to take this data from third party databases, but clarifies the issue with the following statement: "However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed." In the discussion to where there are no Cast of Crew credits, Ken weighed in that data from an official site of that movie was allowed: * Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
I see no problem listing the cast (as uncredited) and crew from the official site in this case. * Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Taking another case, if a particular locality has blank or limited cast info, and the submitter would like to fill it in with their verified cast from their own locality, I would tend to allow the voters who actually own the submitted locality to make the call. However, the submitted contribution notes should clearly indicate that the cast is from the other locality, so that the voters and contribution evaluators can make an informed choice.
One additional reminder to please keep the contribution vote notes completely civil at all times. This final area is one that causes a lot of debate. But, according to invelos we are allowed to Copy and Paste Cast from the same film in the invelos database. | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 71 |
| | Posted: | | | | @Kathy
In this case National Lampoon's Vacation got a complete cast and crew list in the end credits. At least my copy got it.
According to the rules:
"For any film with standard credits, take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited." |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I thought so, ghost. But its been a long time since I looked and without access to the collection.... | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DigitalGhost: Quote:
According to the rules:
"For any film with standard credits, take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited." You are of course exactly correct. But, this is only one section of the rules. I was only pointing out that there other sections of the rules that expand, clarify or add to the rule you posted above. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DigitalGhost: Quote:
@Kathy
In this case National Lampoon's Vacation got a complete cast and crew list in the end credits. At least my copy got it. While this is true, Kathy and Pete simply trusted what tvmangum wrote...that the end credits didn't list roles for all the actors. In that situation, which is hardly unique, the rules allow us to get the roles from other sources. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: November 25, 2012 | | Posts: 8 |
| | Posted: | | | | I did make a mistake. I went back and watched the closing credits and roles were given for the actors. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tvmangum: Quote:
I did make a mistake. No worries, we all make them. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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