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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Previous   Next
Cast Member Names
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Thanks Achim, i acn't remember everything, I try though.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,198
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Quoting goodguy:
Quote:
As far as I can see there is currently only one problem with the Common Name:

If a user changes a common name in his local database,
and if he does this via "Edit Cast Member" in DVDProfiler,
and if this common name also represents "as credited" for some movies,
then the Credited As field for these movies is *not* updated with the previously used name for this cast member.

This is *not* a problem for changes made via the NameVariants plugin, because the plugin *does* update the Credited As field.

I already tried to address this issue in the Use of Credited As thread, but apparently the discussion of typos and Lon Chaney variants was more important.


I have been playing with this and I don't think it is going to be a problem.  Take 'Richard Dean Anderson' as an example.  I tried to change his name, via the Edit Cast Member' button, to 'Richard Anderson'.  The program would not let me do this because 'Richard Anderson' already exists in the db.

According to Ken, his search will reveal the most common 'credited as' name.  That means the name will already exist in the db.  As I have just pointed out, you can't edit a name to something that already exists.

This brings up another point you made...you say the 'credited as' data is not stored if it matches the 'common name'.  If this is true, Ken's program can't work.  His program searches the 'credited as' field.  You can't search and empty field and get results. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTracer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 951
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Think of it this way the common name field is the old credited as field from v2.5.  All Ken has basically done is added another tag called credited as which allows you to put in any name you wish.  This name is not added to your local cast DB it is just allows the profile to show the actor's credited as name if it differs from the one that was stored in the local DB.

If the name in the local DB matches the name in the credited as field for the DVD profile you are working with the credited as field is cleared out since they match.

This is why if you were to edit a cast members name in your DB it would effect all profiles that have that name associated with it.  Editing the "credited as" field has no effect on the local cast DB, it only effects the profile that has the credited as name.
Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,198
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Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
Think of it this way the common name field is the old credited as field from v2.5.  All Ken has basically done is added another tag called credited as which allows you to put in any name you wish.  This name is not added to your local cast DB it is just allows the profile to show the actor's credited as name if it differs from the one that was stored in the local DB.

If the name in the local DB matches the name in the credited as field for the DVD profile you are working with the credited as field is cleared out since they match.

This is why if you were to edit a cast members name in your DB it would effect all profiles that have that name associated with it.  Editing the "credited as" field has no effect on the local cast DB, it only effects the profile that has the credited as name.


I think you missed what I said.  Every profile that was contributed to the Invelos db had the 'common name' and 'credited as' name exactly the same.  Because of that, the 'credited as' name has to exist in the cast db.  Since it exists, the program will not let you edit another name to match.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTracer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 951
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I think your missing my point, of course you can not edit an name that is in your actors DB to the same as a name that is already in your actors DB.  That has never been possible, try doing it in v2.5 you'll get the same results.

If you wanted to change a profile from 'Richard Dean Anderson' to 'Richard Anderson' you would have to use the replace feature since that name already existed in the actors DB. If you wanted to keep 'Richard Dean Anderson' as the "common name" but, change the way it is displayed on the screen credits you would use the credited as feature.

I'm not sure totally how Ken plans on implementing the new web search feature. But, if it is anything close to Goodguys tool but, on a much larger scale.  It would show you the "Commonly credited as name" and the "Credited as name" for each particular DVD profile where the credited as feature is being used.
Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,198
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Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
I think your missing my point, of course you can not edit an name that is in your actors DB to the same as a name that is already in your actors DB.  That has never been possible, try doing it in v2.5 you'll get the same results.

If you wanted to change a profile from 'Richard Dean Anderson' to 'Richard Anderson' you would have to use the replace feature since that name already existed in the actors DB. If you wanted to keep 'Richard Dean Anderson' as the "common name" but, change the way it is displayed on the screen credits you would use the credited as feature.


I guess we missed each others points then.  That portion of my original post was in response to Goodguy saying there was a problem when someone used the 'Edit Cast Member' feature in profiler.  I was pointing out, based on what you just confirmed, that it shouldn't be a problem because you shouldn't be able to edit them that way.

Quote:
I'm not sure totally how Ken plans on implementing the new web search feature. But, if it is anything close to Goodguys tool but, on a much larger scale.  It would show you the "Commonly credited as name" and the "Credited as name" for each particular DVD profile where the credited as feature is being used.


From what I understand, and Ken has confirmed this, it will search the 'credited as' field in the maind db.  Once it has done this it will show you the most common 'credited as' name.  While that data may not be stored in the local actor db, it has to be stored with the profile since that is what Ken is going to search.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTracer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 951
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gotcha
Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Geezus, and you guys wonder why I don't want to play this insidious game...  !   
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgoodguy
Sita Sings the Blues
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 1,029
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I have been playing with this and I don't think it is going to be a problem.  Take 'Richard Dean Anderson' as an example.  I tried to change his name, via the Edit Cast Member' button, to 'Richard Anderson'.  The program would not let me do this because 'Richard Anderson' already exists in the db.

You are able to edit them that way if the new name you choose doesn't exist in your local DB. And if the previous name also was the way the person was credited in some profiles, then the Credited As field in those profiles is blank. And since it is still blank after you have changed the name, you no longer know how the person was credited in those profiles, because if Credited As is blank, it means Credited As equals Common Name.

Maybe I'm explaining this not very well, but I think the Scenario 1 in my previous post should give a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about.

Quote:
According to Ken, his search will reveal the most common 'credited as' name.  That means the name will already exist in the db.  As I have just pointed out, you can't edit a name to something that already exists.

I wasn't talking about the additional assistance Ken will provide with his online search. I was talking about a function of the DVDProfiler program that can cause problems.

Quote:
This brings up another point you made...you say the 'credited as' data is not stored if it matches the 'common name'.  If this is true, Ken's program can't work.  His program searches the 'credited as' field.  You can't search and empty field and get results.

When Ken says, it searches the "Credited As" field, he meant functionality, not implementation. Unless you run into some quirks, the way it is implemented usually isn't of interest to the end user. And I'm pretty sure that Ken's implementation knows that a blank field means "look somewhere else".

Besides, the way the local DB is structured isn't the same as the online DB. As Ken recently said, the local DB has a very simplistic layout compared to the way data are stored in his master DB.
Matthias
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Quoting ya_shin:
Quote:
Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
The thing that gets me is who chooses the "common name"

Ken is setting up a tool which will allow lookup of the "common name", so anyone trying to to do so will get the same result. No personal judgement involved.

Quote:
and what makes that particular "common name"  a better choice than any other?

Nothing.

Quote:
What if I prefer a different "common name" than is in the main DB?

Then you don't contribute changes to those profiles.

You seem to have misunderstood what I am asking.

Who decides what the "common name" becomes? How is that name decided upon?

If this "linking system", as you suggest, winds up replacing accurate data (per the credits) it isn't a linking system at all because all it is doing is removing\changing the data.

If I don't like the choice(s) "whomever" selects, I have to go back and re-edit my profiles or block any updates to all profiles and create all of my own profiles from now on? What happened to "as Credited"? Does all of that work become relegated to the waste can?

We need a linking system not a method of repopulating the data fields to someone's idea of a "popular" name for any given actor\actress.

If it actually repopulates the data fields, as you are suggesting, then this program is basically useless as far as credits go.

Do you get my point yet?
Dan
 Last edited: by Dan W
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTracer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 951
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The common name should be the most commonly used "credited as" name for the particular actor your trying to link, that is in the main DB.  That way only the profiles where they are credited differently would need to be changed to this commonly credited name "common name" then we would use the credited as field to make sure they still appear as credited for that profile.

The online DB should be what decides the common name, as long as the contributor uses the most commonly credited as name that is in our main DB.
Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
The common name should be the most commonly used "credited as" name for the particular actor your trying to link, that is in the main DB.  That way only the profiles where they are credited differently would need to be changed to this commonly credited name "common name" then we would use the credited as field to make sure they still appear as credited for that profile.

The online DB should be what decides the common name, as long as the contributor uses the most commonly credited as name that is in our main DB.

All that is well and good but who has decided to summarily dump the accurate data?

Why would we want to do that?

A linking system should not remove accurate data.
Dan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorNewEnglander
Registered: 11/13/2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
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It's not dumping accurate data, it's moving it to a new field.

Edit a profile, go to cast. Double click a current cast member.

It shows you the actor name in a non-editable field.. that's the Common Name, or linking name.

New field is Credited As (Change that to 123) you'll see "Actor Name (123)" or "Common Name (Credited As)"

Nothing is lost, all the accurate data will remain, just be movied.
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 Last edited: by NewEnglander
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Thanks for that Erik.

Now that we have that sorted out, answer me this....

Just for this to work, we have to go through this for every entry for every actor in every film each one of them is in.  That's an awful lot of work when there are far easier systems which do the same thing with a fraction of the effort. Why should we support this??? It's incredibly cumbersome!
Dan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Oh, BTW, none have you have been able to answer "who" chooses this "common name" and what the criteria is for it.



I think I'll continue to just enter the data as I find it in the credits and let you guys work on these "common name" links.





GEEEZE!!!!    I just realized how many times I'm likely to see an update for each of my profiles.


GOD HELP US!!!!
Dan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorNewEnglander
Registered: 11/13/2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Ken posted somewhere why he chose this system ober any other's. I'll see if I can locate iot for you.
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