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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
TV Series Cast - Rules
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKevin
Registered March 22, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 609
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Okay, just for a possible clarification, because I might want to "bend" the rules.

I know in the rules for cast and crew it says to take them directly from the credits. It also states...
Quote:
If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use another source to identify the role.

Now in TV sets there are times when the credits don't list who the character names are, we just "know" them from the episodes.

Case in point the Buffy series. Some characters are listed in the DB with just their first or last names, although it can be proven through the Canon for the series that they have full names. (ie. Anthony Stewart Head as "Giles" but his full name is "Rupert Giles.")

If we have the correct documentation to prove a change, is it permitted to expand the characters names? There's really nothing in the rules that covers that, I think.

No, I'm not going to break the rules. But, since I believe this is a gray area, I'm looking for guidance.
(Of course, I'll make the changes locally and not submit, like I usually do. but I thought others would appreciate the information).
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBerak
Bibamus morieundum est!
Registered: May 10, 2007
Norway Posts: 1,059
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If you can document the changes there is nothing wrong with expanding character names...
Berak

It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTigiHof
Keep your options open
Registered: March 13, 2007
Germany Posts: 465
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Anthony Stewart Head is credited as "Giles" in the "Buffy" episodes and that's how it has to stay in the profile. We still use "as credited".

I also like the profile entries for the other main characters, who's role names are not given in the credits. Please don't even think about changing "Xander Harris" back to "Alexander 'Xander' Harris III" as it was one or two years ago. These lengthy credits with all imaginable nick and family names look terrible and are totally superfluous.

Btw., I have compiled a complete cast list with dividers for Season 3 of "Buffy" (the profiles for Seasons 3-7 still don't use the new features) and will add it as soon as I found the time to also do the crew credits (currently working on "Star Trek: The Next Generation" - so many series, so few contributors). 
Michael
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 4,245
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TV.com is a good source. They have episode guides for many shows.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,198
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I usually go with the name that is most often used in the series.  Just about every character has a full name if we look hard enough.  I don't see the point in searching for it.  In your example, if everyone refers to the guy as 'Giles', then that is what I use.

That being said, the rules don't address this.  It is a personal choice and you are free to enter it any way you like.  However, since it is not covered by the rules, people are free to vote no if they don't like it. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTigiHof
Keep your options open
Registered: March 13, 2007
Germany Posts: 465
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I usually go with the name they are most often used in the series.  Just about every character has a full name if we look hard enough.  I don't see the point in searching for it.  In your example, if everyone refers to the guy as 'Giles', then that is what I use.

In this special case it is not a matter of common reference. As I said, Anthony Stewart Head's role name is the only one of the main characters that is listed in the credits (as "Giles").
Michael
 Last edited: by TigiHof
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,198
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Quoting TigiHof:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I usually go with the name they are most often used in the series.  Just about every character has a full name if we look hard enough.  I don't see the point in searching for it.  In your example, if everyone refers to the guy as 'Giles', then that is what I use.

In this special case it is not a matter of common reference. As I said, Anthony Stewart Head's role name is the only one of the main characters that is listed in the credits (as "Giles").


I was going based on the original post.  He sure made it sound like this guy was listed without a role. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTigiHof
Keep your options open
Registered: March 13, 2007
Germany Posts: 465
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I was going based on the original post.  He sure made it sound like this guy was listed without a role. 

Thought so.

Well, then he is dead wrong.
Michael
 Last edited: by TigiHof
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKevin
Registered March 22, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 609
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Quoting TigiHof:
Quote:
Please don't even think about changing "Xander Harris" back to "Alexander 'Xander' Harris III" as it was one or two years ago. These lengthy credits with all imaginable nick and family names look terrible and are totally superfluous.

You sure you don't want "Alexander Levelle 'Xander' Harris III"?

I just used Buffy as a reference, because it was the first thing that popped into my head. I watched the show from day one, so I wasn't "dead wrong" about people in it and their credits.

I'll do one (not from Buffy) and see what people think. If they don't like it, oh well. Like Unicus said, people are free to vote it down. If anything, I'll have the cool stuff in my database, and if people want it, they can contact me.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Are you talking about changing the As Credited role Kevin. I f you are then the answer is NO and the Rules are clear as to the intent of exception. If you are talking about epanding a Role that is not credited and was provided by a third party souirce per the Rules, I would say don't do that even with documentation, unless the third party source was incorrect, because this falls into personal opinion and preference and you already know where I stand on that. Keep it local. It would also set up users ping-ponging data based upon that you say it should Jack Smith, I discover Jackson Smith and so and so and son. We've BTDT.

By the way my impression of "rule Bending" as you put it is trying to capitalize on something inorder to bend the database to YOUR will. Which I very definitely frown on.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKevin
Registered March 22, 2001
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 609
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Skip, I never said I was going against the rules. Christ, I'm smarter than that. And since there's no hard and fast rule for what I am talking about, the "bending" is virtual.

I'm saying if there's a cast member with NO "official" name in the credits, but it used as what he is "called" in the shows, then if I have official word (from an official book, website) which lists his/her name, why can't I use it? It's the character's official name, and it's from a proven source. I"m not changing "As Credited" because it doesn't exist in the credits.

Use this example..

Heroes Season 1 comes out in August. Now say the credits of the shows never give Milo Ventimiglia's character Peter his last name, although from the official Heroes website and from the creator Tim Kring we know the character's name is Peter Petrelli.

So Peter Petrelli is his official name, even though he is not credited with any name in the show. But official sources show him with that name. Is it then wrong to use that information? it's a documented name.

Or Firefly. The credits just list Nathan Fillion as an actor. No where in the credits of the episodes is he "officially" named, but from official sources (Joss Whedon, for one) his character is Malcolm Reynolds. Why can't I contribute that if I can point to a 100% verifiable source that the information is correct?

Remember, I am not trying to change "As Credited" data. I'm not a frickin' moron.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Just wanted to be sure, my friend, sometime some of our user friends....

Then the second part comes into play. If you are changing correct data, but YOU want to expand that data, then I would not do it for Contribution because that sets up ping-ponging. For not released  DVDs how can someoe list Cast and crew according to the Rules WITHOUT the disc in their hands. Once the disc is released then we know what to use, in the meantime, I would remove ALL role data, since we have no disc. On Firefly if you can point to a verifiable source be my guest, that is CORRECTING data that is currently listed and he sounds like he is (uncredited)...yes?

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,198
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Quoting Kevin:
Quote:
Skip, I never said I was going against the rules. Christ, I'm smarter than that. And since there's no hard and fast rule for what I am talking about, the "bending" is virtual.

I'm saying if there's a cast member with NO "official" name in the credits, but it used as what he is "called" in the shows, then if I have official word (from an official book, website) which lists his/her name, why can't I use it? It's the character's official name, and it's from a proven source. I"m not changing "As Credited" because it doesn't exist in the credits.

Use this example..

Heroes Season 1 comes out in August. Now say the credits of the shows never give Milo Ventimiglia's character Peter his last name, although from the official Heroes website and from the creator Tim Kring we know the character's name is Peter Petrelli.

So Peter Petrelli is his official name, even though he is not credited with any name in the show. But official sources show him with that name. Is it then wrong to use that information? it's a documented name.


Not a good example.  While the characters are not named in the credites, they are 'captioned' quite often in the series.  I would use the names captioned before I use a third party source.

Quote:
Or Firefly. The credits just list Nathan Fillion as an actor. No where in the credits of the episodes is he "officially" named, but from official sources (Joss Whedon, for one) his character is Malcolm Reynolds. Why can't I contribute that if I can point to a 100% verifiable source that the information is correct?


Better example.  As I said, if everyone in the series calls him 'Malcolm', that is what I would use.  But, again, that is my personal choice.  For things like this, if you want to contribute, I don't have a problem with it.

Quote:
Remember, I am not trying to change "As Credited" data. I'm not a frickin' moron.


Does that imply that you are a regular moron? 

I'm kidding, I'm kidding.  Just a play on words...like when somone says they are not a complete idiot.  Does that imply that they are a partial idiot? 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTracer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 951
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I have notice for some of the main cast that doesn't have roles in the credits they are listed on the DVD box.  And used these roles when none were provided in the credits.
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