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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Debate on 'Common Names'. Opinions wanted. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
... As long as ANY personal preference comes into play, and there are no standards on how to determine what the common name is, I will NOT use it.
That's funny, when I said similar things about rules, you said I was "whining" and "complaining" ...
Ken has decided, now you take the information and do what you want. Surfeur: Ken has said he will take another look at this once he gets past the beta. I agree with John, in that personal preference has NO place in the Online, I know that YOU believe you know more than the filmmakers and have zero understanding of the Online and its function...as long as it does what YOU want it to. That is not going to happen in Profiler, there is a place where you can go to to do whatever you want but it is not going to be HERE, and based on some of what I see going on, it may not be there to much longer...I wonder why that is true.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'll ask the question again are we interested in trying to create a solution or do we just want to continue with the back-biting.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: June 8, 2007 |  Posts: 58 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
You are riight I overlooked the Z, the Twelve are Robert "Bobby Z", so that is the most common I have
Skip Works for me, since that was also what my digging around showed at first. Thanks. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
You are riight I overlooked the Z, the Twelve are Robert "Bobby Z", so that is the most common I have
Skip Thanks for bringing back the 'Z'. He is known, in the industry, as Robert "Bobby Z" Zajonc and I was beginning to wonder what credits you were talking about.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
As long as ANY personal preference comes into play, and there are no standards on how to determine what the common name is, I will NOT use it.
No one cares! And THAT is the kind of attitude that is causing the problem. You don't give a damn that there are no standards, and as a result, more and more people are finding that it simply doesn't work the way its supposed to. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
As long as ANY personal preference comes into play, and there are no standards on how to determine what the common name is, I will NOT use it.
No one cares!
And THAT is the kind of attitude that is causing the problem. You don't give a damn that there are no standards, and as a result, more and more people are finding that it simply doesn't work the way its supposed to. No, I don't care if you use the common name feature or not and neither does anyone else. Nice try at twisting my words!  | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pdf256: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
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Quoting Rifter:
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Gabby Hayes is usually NOT in quotes. That's the only name I ever knew him by when I was a kid and most of my adult life.
Therefore, he would be entered into DVDP as 'Gabby//Hayes', not "Geroge//Hayes".
No, he should be entered exactly as he appears in credits, whether it be as George, Gabby, "Gabby", or George "Gabby", whatever. Or is that too subtle for you?
Pay attention, Rifter. We're talking about "Common Name", here.
Get it?
Yeah, and just who gets to pick that 'common name', eh? You? Tim? I don't think so. As long as ANY personal preference comes into play, and there are no standards on how to determine what the common name is, I will NOT use it.
We get to pick the common name and we get to vote on it!
You and Skip can always find some oddball case where it will be hard to pick a 'common name', but in most cases it will not be very hard.
John, I know that this is hard for you, but we now have two fields for the name; 'common name' and 'credited as'. The name listed in the credits goes into the 'credited as' slot. If an actor or a crew member is commonly known by a different name we enter it in the 'common name' slot. It is just not that hard, even you could do it.
Now the real question is; because you are someone that feels that having both actors with the name 'Harrison Ford' list together is OK, but 'Robin Wright' should not be listed with 'Robin Wright Penn', why should we listen to you?
pdf You can say whatever you want to, but I have been very consistent in my objections to use of 'common name.' 1. Without standards and rules, it isn't going to work. 2. As long as users can get away with personal preference it won't work right. 3. The Harrison Ford issue had to do with BY, not common name. 4. Linking or no linking, we are better served by simply using the name as it appears in the cast list. Period. So, if you're going to accuse me of something at least get it right. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
... As long as ANY personal preference comes into play, and there are no standards on how to determine what the common name is, I will NOT use it.
That's funny, when I said similar things about rules, you said I was "whining" and "complaining" ...
Ken has decided, now you take the information and do what you want. And he still hasn't done what I think will ultimately have to be done to fix the problem. Was his latest move a help? Time will tell. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
...
4. Linking or no linking, we are better served by simply using the name as it appears in the cast list. Period. ... John, the "name as it appears in the cast list" goes in the 'credited as' field. How are you not getting what you need/want? pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
... As long as ANY personal preference comes into play, and there are no standards on how to determine what the common name is, I will NOT use it.
That's funny, when I said similar things about rules, you said I was "whining" and "complaining" ...
Ken has decided, now you take the information and do what you want.
And he still hasn't done what I think will ultimately have to be done to fix the problem. Was his latest move a help? Time will tell. It's doubtful that Ken really cares what you "think will ultimately have to be done to fix the problem." | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
And THAT is the kind of attitude that is causing the problem. You don't give a damn that there are no standards, and as a result, more and more people are finding that it simply doesn't work the way its supposed to. This feature is working fine...Ken himself said so and I agree with him! There is no impending ping-pong holocaust that soon will come upon us. Sit back and relax already...you're gonna have a heart attack! | | | | Last edited: by Bodi |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I believe that the discussions on this topic have rather graphically demonstrated to that he thought it was OK, when in FACT it is not.
I still believe that user determoined Priority Mame is a bad idea, but ken has chosen that path, at least for now. So if that is the way, then we HAVE to figure out to get ALL users on the same page. I am still not seeing much discussion in how to do that, I am not interested in forcing MY opinion on what a Priority Name is and I am not interested in having someone else's opinion forced upon me or anyone else. All we have to do is figure out how to create a standard and what the criteria are. If we aren't able to do that here I will be happy to discuss possibilities via PM, but this is getting silly. Let's solve the problem.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | There is no problem...if there was we'd know about it...what evidence do you have that there is a problem? How much ping-ponging are you seeing? I haven't seen any...in fact all I see is people using the feature. The fact that you and a handful of users in the forum don't like it or agree with how it's being carried out isn't evidence of a widespread problem. Nor is there any hysteria or epidemic. We're going on 6 months and the database is alive and well...your doom predictions haven't happened...sorry but you're just wrong on this.
This is how it works Skip. Someone makes a contribution and they pick a name...they provide some documentation..then we the voters decide whether to accept or not...if there is major disagreements we can discuss in forums to iron out the details..simple. | | | | Last edited: by Bodi |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Bodi:
If you don't see the problem or the potential for a problem, I don't know what to say. Well i do, but i won't. ANY system that relies on user preference to function is simply flawed, vote system or not and if we set up a system or if as I think it will fall to Ken to sort out, we should have ONE page for all of us to operate from then we won't need discussions.
How valid a system do you have when you have a significant number of users who simply refuse to vote on them, as I do, and so do a number of other users. And I will not vote on them until we have a standard, either set by us or by Ken, nor will I submit any Priority name data without a standard, because unlike you I am noit willing to impose my personal opinion or accept anyone else's. So your position disenfranchises a number of users who could be making substantial Contributions and to the database...that's a brilliant plan.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
...because unlike you I am noit willing to impose my personal opinion ...
You are always willing to impose your personal opinion. When a rule is stupid, everybody must follow if YOU find it correct (spelling mistakes...). When Ken says something that doesn't fit what you think, you whine and complain that you'll no more vote. We don't care about that. Anyway, I never saw any vote from you on any of my contributions, and I'm not dead for that.  | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Surfeur: I hav4e had this same discussion with you for THREE years, and it all revolves around YOUR desire to manipulate the database to your personal preferences, and that is precisel;y why I say any time we rely on user preference we ALL lose. Who died and made you the god that has the magical ability to know MORE than do the people who actually made the film. Have you been a participant in any film that gives you any level of expertise on THAT particular film...I doubt it. Get past your own ego and your own desire to impose your preferences on the database. You can track 10,000 titles at IMDb for free and they will let you insert almost any data, in any form you wish...I suggest you go use it. But we have Rules for a reason and that is to prevent users like YOU from imposing their desire to sort James Bond movies altogether or whatever your poison might be. You finding a Rule stupid only means that you believe it so, it could also mean that you are unwilling to understand the reason behind the Rule.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
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