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| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Are we allowed to use a single 3rd party source for data?
Edit: To clarify - I am ONLY talking about Cast and Roles. Thanks. | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | ... for sure: just think of release dates, SRP, rating details, ...
As long as the source is authoritative - or at least relyable... | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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| Registered: March 18, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,639 |
| | Posted: | | | | Which 3rd party database are we referring too? |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is in reference to one of my contributions where an old film only had opening credits. I took the cast exactly from the opening credits, and added role names from Wikipedia.
Kathy voted no, saying that I needed to source the role names from more than one single source. I can't find anything in the rules that support that statement. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes. You are not allowed to "mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license". However, there is no prohibition from acquiring some information from a third party database. For instance, on many older films (I'm talking about 1930's vintage) it's not uncommon for the main cast to have roles credited and for supporting cast to have no roles credited. If you were to use roles from a third party database for this portion of the cast I don't believe it would be a violation of the rules.
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | Please note that the rule says "which violates their stated usage license". This rules out (for example) IMDb, but it doesn't rule out Wikipedia. Their usage license specifically states that you are free to share their data.
Also note that Kathy's objection was that I only used one single source. The rule states "you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role." Note "another" - singular. No mention of multiple sources needed. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | I do wish that those who have voted No would explain what they base their votes on.
I put in a lot of time doing complete audits of profiles that I find lacking or suspicious, including going through credits, and often also rescanning the covers. Sure, I can make mistakes. I am not infallible. When someone points out a mistake, I fix it. But I expect them to be able to explain why it is a mistake. If it is a rule infraction, I expect them to show me the rule (or forum ruling by Ken or Gerry) that I have violated.
I get very disappointed when someone wants to discard my hard work just with "it's not allowed" without being able to back it up. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | Oddly enough, the screeners seem disagree with the majority here. A couple of other similar contributions have been declined.  It's everybody's loss as far as I'm concerned. Of course the screeners don't provide any explanation. Or possibility to argue my case. It certainly doesn't encourage me to contribute further.  | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Oddly enough, the screeners seem disagree with the majority here... On the first hand screeners only follow the votes. (Resonable) No-votes turn down a contribution. To argue with screeners just edit your contribution notes after you received a no vote... | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting AiAustria: Quote:
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Oddly enough, the screeners seem disagree with the majority here...
On the first hand screeners only follow the votes. (Resonable) No-votes turn down a contribution.
To argue with screeners just edit your contribution notes after you received a no vote... There were no votes at all for these contributions. I've seen screeners accept all kinds of crap, but now they're turning down good profiles that I've spent hours of work auditing. Well screw that!  | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | There have been discussions about this topic before. I've tried to find the relevant threads but didn't have any luck.
GSyren, I might very well be wrong and mine is only one vote. If you think you are right please leave the contribution as is.
I only brought this to the forums to get further input since I seldom disagree with any of your contributions. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | Kathy,
I'm disappointed in Invelos, not in you. I respect that you have your opinion.
If they can't be bothered to explain why they decline my hard work, then they don't deserve it. Right now I don't feel like contributing any more of my profile work. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | My only problem with these kind of contributions is that the profile should reflect the film credits. And if we add role names to cast that aren't credited with role names, the profile no longer reflects the credits. Keep in mind that this sort of information is optional, although certainly useful. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
I've seen screeners accept all kinds of crap, but now they're turning down good profiles that I've spent hours of work auditing. Well screw that! The way I look at it, I audit my profiles for my own benefit, and I will occasionally contribute that work if the mood strikes me (which is infrequently.) If the recipients of my work want it they are welcome to it. If they don't, I just move on. The online database is not my database, so I don't worry about it very much. --------------- |
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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | From the rules
If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
From the rules
If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited. What part of that rule hasn't already been addressed already in this thread?  | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
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