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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | edit | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Imagine that. The Irish voted for their own self interests.
If only they knew what they voted for  Oh, I understand. They did not vote the way you would have, therefore they must be too stupid to have understood what they were voting for!   | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Astrakan: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
The EU needs lots of work to be viable.
A viable what?
The EU is certainly viable in many aspects already: as an instrument of sustained peace (considering Europe's history, this is probably the most imporant function of the EU), as a body that helps the less developed member nations catch up to their neighbours (if you've travelled in Spain or Portugal over the course the past several years you'll know what I mean), as a goods and services trade arrangement, as a simplifier of travel and migration...
I'm sure I could make the list longer if I thought about it. Point is, the EU is certainly a viable organization in many different respects.
KM Sustained peace? I think you've pretty much had peace in Europe since the end of the second world war. Just exactly how has the EU contributed to that in just the last few years? Was there a European war that has been averted that I am unaware of? | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 1,380 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Oh, I understand. They did not vote the way you would have, therefore they must be too stupid to have understood what they were voting for! Nope, they got what they voted for, doesnt consern me (although it did slow down the treaty, but i'm pretty sure it will come into effect, with or without Ireland). But doesnt matter which countrie the voting would have been held, the majority just has no idea what Lissabon Treaty really means. And it didnt help that the opposition was spreading lies about it. Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Sustained peace?
I think you've pretty much had peace in Europe since the end of the second world war.
Just exactly how has the EU contributed to that in just the last few years? Was there a European war that has been averted that I am unaware of? Point is to tie the countries economically to each other so that going to war with each other would be an economic suicide. Also after WW2 there has been wars in Europe, with genocide and all that. | | | | Last edited: by whispering |
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| Registered: December 16, 2007 |  Posts: 926 |
| | Posted: | | | | More or less expected something about soccer. Instead you get something about a country that was one of those that really profited from the membership. |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | So how come we're not allowed to talk about the US Goverment but you guys are allowed to talk about the EU? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote:
Nope, they got what they voted for, doesnt consern me... If it doesn't concern you then why make the comment "If only they knew what they voted for ". The Irish voted they're conscience for what was best for them and your comment was uncalled for. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
So how come we're not allowed to talk about the US Goverment but you guys are allowed to talk about the EU? Who say's you're not allowed? Users in this forum  are bashing the U.S. every chance they get  | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection | | | | Last edited: by Bad Father |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm not against Ireland but I am oppossed to referenda. Vital issues should be the responsibility of the government not of the people. They aren't well informed and only make decisions based on gut feelings. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,242 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
I'm not against Ireland but I am oppossed to referenda. Vital issues should be the responsibility of the government not of the people. They aren't well informed and only make decisions based on gut feelings. As opposed to Politicians who are doing it for what they can get in brides and expenses for them selves. Governments are voted in and out of office. Brussels is Not. Steve |
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| Registered: June 27, 2007 |  Posts: 2,049 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's great that Ireland voted against it. That referendum would have taken a lot of rights of individual countries and would enable the guys in Brussels to decide stuff and we (the people in the EU) wouldn't be able to do squad.
I am very thankful for that Vote.
If we in Austria had been allowed to vote the results would have been even more drastic. Over here even more people are opposed to the referendum. | | | | Check out my Youtube channel under https://www.youtube.com/user/alittleolder |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote:
Point is to tie the countries economically to each other so that going to war with each other would be an economic suicide. Also after WW2 there has been wars in Europe, with genocide and all that. Yes, but those wars were internal wars, not wars against other countries...unless I missed something...that is the point, I believe, Hal was making. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,242 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Stephan.klose: Quote:
It's great that Ireland voted against it. That referendum would have taken a lot of rights of individual countries and would enable the guys in Brussels to decide stuff and we (the people in the EU) wouldn't be able to do squad.
I am very thankful for that Vote.
If we in Austria had been allowed to vote the results would have been even more drastic. Over here even more people are opposed to the referendum. We here in the UK are in the same boat. The labour party promised the people a referendum on the Europe issue as part of their elction pledge, now they are in power they are refusing to hold to the promise as they know it will result in " NO". Now tonight on the evening news its being reported that those who have already ratified the treaty are looking at ways to bring it in via the back door without everybody ratifying it, so much for democracy We can't do it legally, so we'll sneak it in some other way.  Steve |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,380 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Stephan.klose: Quote:
That referendum would have taken a lot of rights of individual countries and would enable the guys in Brussels to decide stuff and we (the people in the EU) wouldn't be able to do squad. Erm, "the guys in Brussels" are Europeans that we Europeans have voted to be there, next elections are in 2009. If you didnt vote, you have no right to complaine. Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Yes, but those wars were internal wars, not wars against other countries...unless I missed something...that is the point, I believe, Hal was making. From wikipedia: 1946-1949 Greek Civil War 1956 Soviet invasion of Hungary 1968 Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia 1988-1994 Nagorno-Karabakh War 1991-1992 War in South Ossetia 1991-1995 Croatian War of Independence 1992 War of Transnistria 1992-1998 First War in Abkhazia 1992-1995 Bosnian War 1994–1996 First Chechen War 1996-1999 First and Second Kosovo Wars 1998 Second War of Abkhazia 1999-Ongoing Second Chechen War | | | | Last edited: by whispering |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Yes, but those wars were internal wars, not wars against other countries...unless I missed something...that is the point, I believe, Hal was making.
From wikipedia:
1946-1949 Greek Civil War
1956 Soviet invasion of Hungary
1968 Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia
1988-1994 Nagorno-Karabakh War
1991-1992 War in South Ossetia
1991-1995 Croatian War of Independence
1992 War of Transnistria
1992-1998 First War in Abkhazia
1992-1995 Bosnian War
1994–1996 First Chechen War
1996-1999 First and Second Kosovo Wars
1998 Second War of Abkhazia
1999-Ongoing Second Chechen War Again, how many of those were internal wars vs. wars against other countries? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,745 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote:
Erm, "the guys in Brussels" are Europeans that we Europeans have voted to be there, next elections are in 2009. If you didnt vote, you have no right to complaine. The EU parliament is a toothless paper tiger. They can't decide squat. The real power lies within the EU Commission and we can't vote on them. I am young and still I had way too often hear a politician say that he is against a certain law but there's nothing he can do about it because it came from Brussels and he is obliged to make it into german law - often this very same politician initiated that law in Brussels in trhe first place. While the Lisboan Contract may lift the stalemate caused by 27 countries that are able to veto anything, it wouldn't be much better afterwards. One person, one vote ist still not guaranteed and the beaurcrats in Brussels would have been granted even more power than they have now. As long as laws aren't made the way they should be in a democracy - by a parliament with representatives that have the vote of the people - I am not willing to give any more power to the EU. | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
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