Quoting KinoNiki:

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Since you can already do what you prefer, I assumed that you want to change the way we do things in the online. If this is not the case, I guess I've misread you. However, it does seem a lot simpler to me if everyone is using the same data from the film credits as their starting point for the online and then makes any changes in their personal db to suit whatever personal preferences they might have.

What I wanted to discuss was if this is the way we would like to do things. I know what the rules say, and as I have already stated, I do abide by them.

I have no problem with using the credits as a starting point. Just as I have no problem with using the data from the cover as a starting point for running time, audio tracks etc. But just like with those data I would like to have the option of correcting the role names if it can be documented that they do not match what's actually in the movie. I don't see why this would be any more problematic than correcting any other piece of data.

So I am not saying that we should do so now, as the rules are against it. And I'm not saying that I want to force this on you if you are content with the way things are. I just want to find out if there are others who feel the same way that I do. Obviously not very many... 

I agree that the best basis is to track the credits verbatim and enter them as such.

However, I think it would be a huge added value if besides those 1-1 copies of the credits, we can enter 'corrections' for lack of a better word. Which brings me back to the single ID per actor / crew member idea I've been posted about a lot lately. It would add a lot of value to both users who manually choose a common name for their local as well as those attaching importance to correct linking.

Quoting KinoNiki:

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The way I see these mistakes in the credits as part of the movie is pretty much the same way as I would view a boom microphone accidently hanging down in the middle of a scene. Obviously a mistake, but still part of the movie. If the film makers haven't bothered to correct it for some reason, neither will I.

You seem to be under the impression that the credits are under the control of the film makers. Unfortunately that is quite often not the case. There may be a few film makers that have the clout to demand total control of their films, including credits, but they must be few indeed.

Credits are usually created separately be the main distributing studio. And credits may be replaced later in a variety of scenarios. Older films often have their credits changed when the film changes owner. Films shown outside of their original language area often have the credits localized. New credits may be created when a TV version of the movie is edited.

I don't know if the credits on Eugenie are the original credits, but I very seriously doubt that Marie Liljedahl is credited as playing "Eugene" because Jess Franco didn't care.

Furthermore, we add uncredited actors in Profiler, even though their omission from the credits are far more likely to be intentional than incorrect role names. We add them because we care. We care, even though the film makers (or credit makers, as the case may be) have intentionally left them out. Why then can we not care about role names that do not match the actual role played? Why are the credits sancrosanct when it comes to role names, but not when it comes to uncredited actors?

I'm really trying to understand your point of view, but I can not... 

As I said earlier, I think the concern is that we would end up with people adding what they believe to be the correct role...Cmdr. Montgomery 'Scotty' Scott or Lt. Cmdr. Hikaru Sulu...rather that what is actually in the credits.  If you allow the correcting of some, how do you prevent the 'correcting' of them all?

Quoting TheMadMartian:

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As I said earlier, I think the concern is that we would end up with people adding what they believe to be the correct role...Cmdr. Montgomery 'Scotty' Scott or Lt. Cmdr. Hikaru Sulu...rather that what is actually in the credits.  If you allow the correcting of some, how do you prevent the 'correcting' of them all?

I thought I made that quite clear. You cannot change the role from the original credits unless you can document that it is incorrect. If the role is "Scotty" then it is not incorrect and cannot be changed to "Cmdr. Montgomery 'Scotty' Scott".

Quoting scotthm:

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I think it has something to do with wanting to follow a standard rather than having chaos reign.

Like I have said, I am actually advocating following the standard of the end credits, with the only exception being when one can document that the role name is incorrect. I don't understand why people think this will lead to chaos?

Quoting surfeur51:

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We are not credit fetichists.

I think you meant to post this in another forum.  Practically everyone in this forum has credit fetish of one form or another (and i must include myself in that categorization).

Quoting GSyren:

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In that case you need to research everything, don't you? And if that's true, then you hardly have any use for the online database at all... 

There is much correct data in the online db, and so it saves a lot of typing.

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