Quoting surfeur51:

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Quoting scotthm:

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And how can an exact copy of the credits be a problem?

The concept itself of an exact copy is a problem. Since credits may vary for the same person, if you want correct linking...

And there's your fundamental problem.  You want an actor database and Ken (apparently) wants a disc database.  What makes you think linking is more important to Invelos than correct credits?

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Quoting scotthm:

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And there's your fundamental problem.  You want an actor database and Ken (apparently) wants a disc database.  What makes you think linking is more important to Invelos than correct credits?

Here is a part of Ken's advertisement for Dvdprofiler:

Peruse your collection with ease

Extensive, powerful search and filter functions let you find what you're looking for fast.
Or, browse your collection by actor or director through a filmography customized to your collection.(bolded by me)

How can you browse a collection by actor if actors have several names ?

Ken wrote about this function, and never made advertisement about the conformity to credits...

So...

Quoting surfeur51:

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How can you browse a collection by actor if actors have several names ?

The same way you would if each actor was known by only one name.  Obviously.

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Quoting Lewis_Prothero:

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First sabotage the database by contributing non-rule-conform data

I never contributed non-rule-conform data. All my contributions were made before Ken decided to add spelling mistakes to accented name. After this decision, I stopped contributing cast data.

The only sabotage of the database was made by Ken himself with his decision to break the existing linking for thousands of accented names.

Once again, you show your total ignorance about this problem.

Quoting surfeur51:

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How can you browse a collection by actor if actors have several names ?

By implementing crosslinks?

Or to say it in other words:
It's not my ignorance of the problem, but it's your unwillingness to use even the most basic functionality of the program which creates a problem.

So please finally accept:
1) IMDb data is not going to come back for several reasons (as was discussed already in several other threads)

2) Other than you constantly proclaim, IMDb is NOT necessarily using special signs (e.g. accents) as shown (by random example) in my post here

3) IMDb has exactly the same linking problems that we have too, in their database you will find broken links and incorrectly linked persons in abundance. No matter how you see it, it's a fact that some Cast/Crew members appear under various names or that there are several different persons that share and use the same name, this will, no matter which linking system you pick, give you a hard time when trying to link correctly.

Admittedly this problem is only of relevance if you are actually creating and auditing profiles.
People like you, who rely on others to do the work (no matter in which database), may then of course whine that the contributor didn't find all links and/or de-links that could have been implemented.

But that's what "user-created" actually means: I see an error, I correct it, I contribute it. This way constantly improving the database.

4) The most obvious differences between DVDProfiler and IMDb are:
a) IMDb has no local component
b) IMDb is only tracing movie and not release-specific data

Since you constantly state that the release-specific data is of low priority for you and the lack of a local component is, in the days where constant Internet access is normal (at least for the more industrialised regions of Europe), not really relevant anymore.

IMDb has a decent "Collection Management" where you can easily trace all the movies in your collection, without having to bother about this release-specific data.

So if, as you constantly state, IMDb has the sooo much better database, which fits your needs so much better, why is it that you still haven't moved over?
You say you love this program (which is good), but all the forum sees of your love (except for the, very much aprreciated, thread for screenshots) is a constant whining about the state of the database and the unwillingness to do anything about it.


As long as you are not even willing to try if the DVDProfiler system might work you, for me, have absolutely no credibility to complain

Quoting Kathy:

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Compliance of the rules and submitting data correctly by this database's standards is NOT "total ignorance about this problem".

I never said that. I have always said that people who want to contribute must do it per the rules.
When I write "total ignorance about this problem" about Lewis_Prothero's analysis, it is because he has not yet understood that the mess in accented names comes only  from the change of rules in 2008.

Before 2008, it was correct to enter Gérard Depardieu when Credits said GERARD DEPARDIEU. At that time, contributors made their job correctly per the rules. And before 2008, as most accented names were entered per the rules with correct accentuation, we had a good linking, made by contributors who followed the existing rules.

After 2008, it become against rules to enter Gérard, so people entered, per the rules, Gerard. And the new profiles linked no more with the previous ones, the old and new profiles having all been entered per the rules. Just the rules had changed.

So the mess does not come from "sabotage the database by contributing non-rule-conform data" as written by Lewis_Prothero, but by the change of rules, making pre-2008 profiles non-linking with post-2008 profiles. 

Is it insulting Ken to say that ? I do not think so. It is a fact that the change of rules is at the origin of no-linking of accented names, and not a bad behaviour from contributors.

Quoting Kathy:

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Bullying people does not bring them around to your way of thinking.

The only person bullied here is myself when I was accused of sabotage while I never contribute anything against rules. But my purpose is not to bring people to "my" way of thinking. I just analyse facts and their cause, and try to explain them. The facts are that thousands of actors with accented names have in Invelos database non-linking variants that would not exist with the simple rule "respect accentuation". And those facts can be verified by anyone. Just look at CLT. Those variants exist only because Ken chose to simplify the conversion. There is no insult to note that.

Quoting Kathy:

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Yves,

You mentioned that "When a reporter adressed to Marilyn, he said Marilyn Monroe. And when a reporter adresses to François Berléand, I never heard him saying "FranKois Berlend" (which is the pronunciation of Francois Berleand), but "FranSSois Berlé-and" (which is the pronunciation of François Berléand)."

Frankly, I don't care how someone pronounces their name. In fact I'll bet most people mispronounce names that they aren't familiar with.

I don't need to know how someone pronounces their name to type letters onto a computer.

I don't seen anything new or enlightening being brought to the table on this topic so it seems to me to be a waste of time discussing the issue further.

I agree, there is nothing "new or enlightening being brought to the table on this topic".  Because Ken has spoken and it is what it is.  We can either choose to update the DB within the rules or not and keep changes local.  Two simple options.  They only thing we see is people trying to generate reactions.

Quoting surfeur51:

Quote:
Before 2008, it was correct to enter Gérard Depardieu when Credits said GERARD DEPARDIEU. At that time, contributors made their job correctly per the rules. And before 2008, as most accented names were entered per the rules with correct accentuation, we had a good linking, made by contributors who followed the existing rules.

After 2008, it become against rules to enter Gérard, so people entered, per the rules, Gerard. And the new profiles linked no more with the previous ones, the old and new profiles having all been entered per the rules. Just the rules had changed.

That is (and always was) understood by me.

What I restrain to understand is in how far another (opposite) "simplification" is going to help us here.
This lack of understanding especially results from your refusal to answer my questions how we should handle credits that are using both forms (FRANCOIS and FRANÇOIS).

What I do understand is that you don't agree with the rules as they stand today.
This is completely fine for me. I for one do not agree with some other rules. It's just that I (hopefully) don't come up with this disagreement on any remotely related thread.

What I do know too, since you wrote it often enough, is that you do not contribute because you do not agree with the rules. I thought you knew that too.
What I do not understand is in how far, with this knowledge, you could assume, that my remark was aimed at you (personally).
It was aimed at the attitude, that you so eloquently vocalised, which nevertheless is shared by many users, of which many (but not you, of course) contributed non-rule-conform data even after 2008.

So don't try to wear shoes that don't fit you and then complain they hurt.

What I do understand is that we have a lot of legacy data in our database that nowadays isn't exactly rule-conform.
What I do not understand is why this should be an argument for not fixing these data-sets to being rule-conform.

What I do understand is, that this will take enormous man-power.

What you should understand is that, regardless of your personal opinion, I'm not entirely brain-dead.