Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
I have no problem with polls relative to exceptions. BUT we must also recognize that it is Ken that makes the decision...not us. So a poll on its own does not represent ANY kind of authority. Until its in the Rules, any exception does NOT apply no matter what the poll says.

Skip

I have to agree with this... Polls are great to get our opinion to Ken... but until Ken actually agrees and gets the exception into the rules... they are not exceptions.

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
There will be alot of people who will have to dealwith the reputation system as well, as I have suggested, Unicus. Look to your own behavior BEFORE worrying about someone else's.

Tag everybody is IT. Would you like a list, since I know precisely what kind of game this is going to devolve into.

Skip

I really don't want to get into a big long discussion about this, but you are mistaken.  Only a small minority of users will have to deal with this system.  I hope this will encourage more people, like Pantheon, to come back.

Which I why I put at the end of my post:

Quote:
If they agree, then there is a clear comment in the notes to say this is an exception, so it won't be "corrected" at a later date.
If they don't agree, then there is a clear "declined" in the notes to say this won't be allowed as an exception, so don't submit it again.

At no time was I suggesting that we bypass the screeners or that the screeners have to take the poll into account as they do the votes. It's simply a system to let the screeners know the feelings of the community on that particular case. Whether they agree or not is up to them.

@Hal,
my feeling is that this would only be used on exceptional cases. If there are occasions where we have quite a few exceptions to a rule, I'd say it was time to take a new look to that rule, not keep making exceptions.
For example, the Star Wars "Episode" issue. That's highly unlikely ever to crop up again. I know you don't like it, but I'm quite happy with the current titles rule, however I'd be amenable to someone making an exception with regards to the word "Episode" without any change to the actual rule.

And could we please keep this on topic? There's already another thread for the new reputation system.

North:

I would not be amenable to such an exception. As I noted each exception weakens te Rules and will send users looking for their own exception so that they can get the database to appear as they want it to. There reasoonable exception and exceptions whose sole purpose would be to undermine the Rules, such an exception for Star Wars would be the latter.

No it's not up to the screeners to agree or disagree with an exception. We have Rules and it is even MORE important the the screeners follow them, if they pick and choose exceptions on their own, then we wind up not knowing what to enter.

The procedure as always is simple. Follow the Rules and if you don't like it you can make whatever adjustments you wish to your local.

Skip

That only applies to exceptions such as the one you chose. As I noted exceptions such as that do nothing more than undermine the Rules. However, Covers that don't have a title are a legitimate exception. There is a difference and I hope you see that. Trust me you are not the first that said the Rules no matter how well crafted will never cover everything, I knew that years ago, when I first started working on the concept. As I have noted if we could the Rules would wind up resembling the US Tax Code, which you NEVER want to have on your lap. Also, EVERY change in the Rules opens more loopholes, or has consequences that were not foreseen at the time...see Star Wars. Thus I am extremely cautious and careful about endorsing such changes or modifications, I don't bring with me  any personal agenda like some other users do, as long as it gets us on the same page, I also do not try to interpret data, I see the data and I deal with it as the Rules dictate.

I believe my approach is the correct approach and why do I say that. Because in the thousands of titles I have entered I have NOT one time experienced most of the problems (or non-problems) that some run into, USUALLY because they are trying to make the data meet their concept of what it should be. I recognize the multi-level characteristics of the database, what that means, what its strengths and what its weaknesses are and I have ultimate control over MY OWN data.

Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
Because in the thousands of titles I have entered I have NOT one time experienced most of the problems (or non-problems) that some run into, USUALLY because they are trying to make the data meet their concept of what it should be.

That's your fundamental difference with how most of us think and why you are always on the opposing side in these discussions.

You don't care what the data is.  You only care that it follows the pattern defined by the rules.  If it does, it's correct.  If it doesn't, it's wrong.

Most of us look at the problem from the other direction.  We determine the correct data, and then see if the rule allows us to enter it correctly or if we must change the correct data to something else to legally enter it.

I'll not get into who's right and who's wrong.  Just pointing out the difference in thinking here.

Mark,
I think you've got something there. There does seem to be 2 different ways of looking at the data.
Using MIB as an example, I look at it and think "I have a DVD of the film Men In Black, how do I profile this?", whereas Skip (as an example) looks at the same DVD and thinks "I have a DVD with MIB on the cover, how do I profile this?"
And Skip, calling the film "Men In Black" is not "user's imagination or preference" - and it's not illogical for other users to want to call their profile the same as the film. The fact that it's reduced to MIB on the cover is a style issue, not a data issue.
But this is off-topic, we're supposed to be discussing the rules system and alternatives, not specific profiles.

Edit: I've just realised that you said "I might not like it, but..." - that's the whole point of the exception system! The whole point is to look at a piece of data (such as MIB) and think, "if the rules didn't apply, would I enter the same data?" If you think no, then bring it to the forums - if the majority agree then submit it and so on...
Surely that's the point of the online database, to satisfy the majority's data and minimise the amount of alteration an individual has to do?

Judging from the very close posting times I assumed that DVDJon was talking about the discussion above your post.
If he wasn't, then it was a teensy bit of an over-reaction - or maybe just too much coffee