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Group HEADER in credits, use Divider?
Poll Results
YES (11)
YES in example 1, NO in example 2 (16)
NO (11)
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
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Example 1:

HEADER
Role1 Actor1
Role2 Actor2
Role3 Actor3
Role4 Actor4


Example 2:

HEADER
Actor1
Actor2
Actor3
Actor4



For your convenience, here is what I can find in the Rules

Under the credit section:

Quote:
    Do not include artificial actor entries to act as separators between cast lists. (e.g. "--JAPANESE CAST--"), instead use the Divider feature for this.


Under the TV series section:

Quote:
    Enter Cast and Crew for each episode using standard rules, and insert dividers to separate each episode's credit list from the others. Do not list Cast and Crew outside of the dividers even if they are credited in all episodes.
[...] etc.
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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I'm undecided on this, but I'm tending towards the "NO" side of things.
The way I see it is this: these are DIVIDERS, used to separate one cast list from another. In a way we are saying "that's the end of one cast list, here's another one".
A HEADER's job is different: it is saying, "here is a subsection of the same cast list".
In theory it is possible to return to the main cast list after a header, however a divider does not allow this.
For this reason, I believe we shouldn't be using dividers as headers as that's not the job they were designed to do, and as such they don't do it properly.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I voted 'yes for 1, no for 2'.  I have explained why in the other thread.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor?
?
Registered: March 14, 2007
Posts: 3,830
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The rules:
Quote:
Do not include artificial actor entries to act as separators between cast lists. (e.g. "--JAPANESE CAST--"), instead use the Divider feature for this.

the rules tells us to use dividers for separation between cast lists.
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
 Last edited: by ?
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorStaid S Barr
Registered: Oct 16, 2003
Registered: May 9, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 1,536
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Why not Yes for 2, and No for 1? Otherwise we wouldn't know what these poor actors in 2 were doing in the first place...

Kidding apart, why not follow the credits as we are supposed to? If they have a header, so be it. Until DVDP provides another solution, a blank line will do to signal the end of the section and the return to 'normal' credits.
Hans
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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I have voted No. No dividers for group roles (group headers). Only use dividers for different cast lists as written in the rules.
Quote:
Do not include artificial actor entries to act as separators between cast lists. (e.g. "--JAPANESE CAST--"), instead use the Divider feature for this.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I voted 'yes for 1, no for 2'.  I have explained why in the other thread.


I see the merit in your approach, but I also like simple rules, so I would like better option 1 (always use dividers if there is a group header in the credits) or option 3 (never use them).
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I voted 'yes for 1, no for 2'.  I have explained why in the other thread.


I see the merit in your approach, but I also like simple rules, so I would like better option 1 (always use dividers if there is a group header in the credits) or option 3 (never use them).

But is actually IS very simple. Don't use a divider for group roles (which is what the second example is: one role name shared by multiple actors), only for headers. As long as you recognize the different between 'group roles' and 'headers', you're home free... 

The problem with using dividers for group roles is that it only duplicates the same bit of data, since we've all agreed that no matter what, the role name should always be listed for each actor as well. So we'd be entering the same bit of data into two different fields, without any benefit. The first example actually has two bits of data: a header, under which there are several actors listed, each with their own role name. If I see two different bits of data, I feel it's only logic that I would use two different fields to enter them. If we don't use a header for THAT, both pieces of data would have to be shoe-horned into a single field ('role name'), with no standard on how to do that exactly. That would (again) result in ping-ponging, or the dreaded "first one in wins" scenario...
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Sorry Tim I don't buy your definition of Group Role. It is a divider.

Group Role

Role  Actor
        Actor
        Actor

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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I am sorry, but there is no functional difference between:

Role  Actor
        Actor
        Actor

and

Role
Actor Actor Actor

They both serve the same purpose...to indicate the same role shared by a group of actors.  Option 1 (from the original post), on the other hand, serves a different purpose...to separate, or divide if you will, that section of the cast list from the rest.  JMHO
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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It depends what is been used as a header above actors without associated roles. If it's a description like "and" or "also", you can not use that as a role name and you could only use that as a divider.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I am sorry, but there is no functional difference between:

Role  Actor
        Actor
        Actor

and

Role
Actor Actor Actor

They both serve the same purpose...to indicate the same role shared by a group of actors.  Option 1 (from the original post), on the other hand, serves a different purpose...to separate, or divide if you will, that section of the cast list from the rest.  JMHO

Indeed!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
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So here we would use a header


But here (Landstriders & Additional Performers) we would not
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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That is my take on it.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
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What about the use of a blank divider, before the Landstriders there is a list of Mystics if you don’t use a divider the Landstriders and Additional Performers looks like they are part of the Mystics list. So would the use of a blank divider to show that they are a separate list be appropriate.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<CastInformation>
  <Title>The Dark Crystal</Title>
  <Actors>
    <Divider Caption="THE CHARACTER PERFORMERS"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Jim" MiddleName="" LastName="Henson" BirthYear="0" Role="Jen, A Gelfling (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Kathryn" MiddleName="" LastName="Mullen" BirthYear="0" Role="Kira, A Gelfling (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Frank" MiddleName="" LastName="Oz" BirthYear="0" Role="Aughra, A Keeper of Secrets (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Dave" MiddleName="" LastName="Goelz" BirthYear="0" Role="Fizzgig, A Friendly Monster (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Divider Caption="The Skeksis, Masters of the Dark Crystal"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Frank" MiddleName="" LastName="Oz" BirthYear="0" Role="Chamberlain (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Dave" MiddleName="" LastName="Goelz" BirthYear="0" Role="General, Garthim Master (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Jim" MiddleName="" LastName="Henson" BirthYear="0" Role="High Priest, Ritual Master (perfomer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Steve" MiddleName="" LastName="Whitmire" BirthYear="0" Role="Scientist (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Louise" MiddleName="" LastName="Gold" BirthYear="0" Role="Gourmand (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Brian" MiddleName="" LastName="Muehl" BirthYear="0" Role="Ornamentalist (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Bob" MiddleName="" LastName="Payne" BirthYear="0" Role="Historian, Scrollkeeper (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Mike" MiddleName="" LastName="Quinn" BirthYear="0" Role="Slave Master (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Timothy" MiddleName="M." LastName="Rose" BirthYear="0" Role="Treasurer (performer)" CreditedAs="Tim Rose" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Divider Caption="The Mystics"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Brian" MiddleName="" LastName="Muehl" BirthYear="0" Role="Urzah and the Dying Master (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Jean-Pierre" MiddleName="" LastName="Amiel" BirthYear="0" Role="Weaver (performer)" CreditedAs="Jean Pierre Amiel" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Hugh" MiddleName="" LastName="Spirit" BirthYear="0" Role="Cook (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Robbie" MiddleName="" LastName="Barnett" BirthYear="0" Role="Numerologist (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Swee" MiddleName="" LastName="Lim" BirthYear="0" Role="Hunter (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Simon" MiddleName="" LastName="Williamson" BirthYear="0" Role="Chanter (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Hus" MiddleName="" LastName="Levant" BirthYear="0" Role="Scribe (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Toby" MiddleName="" LastName="Philpott" BirthYear="0" Role="Alchemist (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="David" MiddleName="" LastName="Greenaway" BirthYear="0" Role="Healer (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Richard" MiddleName="" LastName="Slaughter" BirthYear="0" Role="Healer (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Divider Caption="Landstriders"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Hugh" MiddleName="" LastName="Spirit" BirthYear="0" Role="Landstrider (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Swee" MiddleName="" LastName="Lim" BirthYear="0" Role="Landstrider (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Robbie" MiddleName="" LastName="Barnett" BirthYear="0" Role="Landstrider (performer)" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Divider Caption="Additional Performers"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Kiran" MiddleName="" LastName="Shah" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Mike" MiddleName="" LastName="Edmonds" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Peter" MiddleName="" LastName="Burroughs" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Malcolm" MiddleName="" LastName="Dixon" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Sadie" MiddleName="" LastName="Corre" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Deep" MiddleName="" LastName="Roy" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Jack" MiddleName="" LastName="Purvis" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Gerald" MiddleName="" LastName="Staddon" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="Gerald Stadden" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Mike" MiddleName="" LastName="Cottrell" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="John" MiddleName="" LastName="Ghavan" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Annie" MiddleName="" LastName="Jones" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="Abbie Jones" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Natasha" MiddleName="" LastName="Knight" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Lisa" MiddleName="" LastName="Esson" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Divider Caption="Stunts"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Kiran" MiddleName="" LastName="Shah" BirthYear="0" Role="Stunts" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Divider Caption="THE CHARACTER VOICES"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Stephen" MiddleName="" LastName="Garlick" BirthYear="0" Role="Jen" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Lisa" MiddleName="" LastName="Maxwell" BirthYear="0" Role="Kira" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Billie" MiddleName="" LastName="Whitelaw" BirthYear="0" Role="Aughra" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Percy" MiddleName="" LastName="Edwards" BirthYear="0" Role="Fizzgig" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Divider Caption="The Skeksis"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Barry" MiddleName="" LastName="Dennen" BirthYear="0" Role="Chamberlain" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Michael" MiddleName="" LastName="Kilgarriff" BirthYear="0" Role="General" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Jerry" MiddleName="" LastName="Nelson" BirthYear="0" Role="High Priest and Dying Emperor" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Steve" MiddleName="" LastName="Whitmire" BirthYear="0" Role="Scientist" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Thick" MiddleName="" LastName="Wilson" BirthYear="0" Role="Gourmand" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Brian" MiddleName="" LastName="Muehl" BirthYear="0" Role="Ornamentalist" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="John" MiddleName="" LastName="Baddeley" BirthYear="0" Role="Historian" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="David" MiddleName="" LastName="Buck" BirthYear="0" Role="Slave Master" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Charles" MiddleName="" LastName="Collingwood" BirthYear="0" Role="Treasurer" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Divider Caption="The Mystics"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Brian" MiddleName="" LastName="Muehl" BirthYear="0" Role="Dying Master" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Sean" MiddleName="" LastName="Barrett" BirthYear="0" Role="Urzah" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Divider Caption="Podlings"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Mike" MiddleName="" LastName="Iveria" BirthYear="0" Role="Podling" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Patrick" MiddleName="" LastName="Monckton" BirthYear="0" Role="Podling" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Sue" MiddleName="" LastName="Wetherby" BirthYear="0" Role="Podling" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Barry" MiddleName="" LastName="Dennen" BirthYear="0" Role="Podling" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Divider Caption="Narrator and Urskeks"/>
    <Actor FirstName="Joseph" MiddleName="" LastName="O&apos;Conor" BirthYear="0" Role="Narrator and Urskeks" CreditedAs="" Voice="True" Uncredited="False"/>
    <Divider Caption=""/>
    <Actor FirstName="Venice" MiddleName="" LastName="Marrow" BirthYear="0" Role="Additional Performer" CreditedAs="" Voice="False" Uncredited="True"/>
  </Actors>
</CastInformation>
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
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