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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 761 |
| | Posted: | | | | Dear all, A few days ago I contributed some updates to the credits of Le Cercle Rouge (Criterion)and Brute Force (Criterion), among others. You can read my notes, explaining my changes in great detail, and I received a substantial amount of yes-votes. They were released yesterday. Before my update, according to the CLT: Henri Decaë: 72/97 Henri Decae: 48/69 The credit in this profile is updated from Henri Decae to Henri Decaë [Henri Decae]. Still with me? After the update, according to the CLT: Henri Decaë: 72/97 Henri Decae: 48/69 What???? I was expecting that they would change to 73/98 and 47/68. I'm trying to find a common name and use that as the name in the crew database, but the CLT uses the CREDITED names. These are not necessarily the COMMON names. I emailed Gerri about this, and she confirmed that the CLT should not be used to find common names. I would like to suggest that the database names are used in the CLT, not the credited names. Can anybody back me up on this? |
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| Registered: June 12, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | Your change wouldn't change the CLT numbers. My understanding is that the Credited As name [Henri Decae] is used in the CLT if it exists, otherwise the base name (Henri Decaë) is used.
If you are suggesting the Credited As name shouldn't be used in tallying the common name i think there are issues with that. Would we ever escape some names that stem from IMDb and are common only for that reason? | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,005 |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TomGaines: Quote:
The Credit Lookup Tool was designed to find out, how often an actor is credited with which name. So it is correct to use the CreditedAs name. We, the users, then can use this information to choose one of these name as common name (usually the one the actor has been mostly credited with).
I always understood it this way. Me too, except for the known flaws that have been discussed before. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is exactly how the tool is supposed to function. It's important to realise that the "credited as" field is never empty, even though it looks like that in DVD Profiler. But for "credit lookup tool" purposes, the "credited as" field is automatically filled with the data from the "name" field(s). The "credit lookup" tool subsequently only looks at the "credited as" field for it's results. The key part of your post is this: Quoting marcelb7: Quote:
The credit in this profile is updated from Henri Decae to Henri Decaë [Henri Decae]. So, the feature functions correctly: before your update, there was an entry for "Henri Decae" (identical values in both "name" and "credited as" fields). After your update, there is an entry for "Henri Decaë [Henri Decae]". Both before and after your update, the tool looks at the "credited as" field, and found "Henri Decae". So it's correct that the numbers don't change. You didn't change the "credited as" name, you just added a "common name". The "credit lookup tool" doesn't look at common names. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: April 14, 2007 |  Posts: 415 |
| | Posted: | | | | There's a reason it is called the CREDIT Lookup Tool and not the COMMON Lookup Tool.
The Common Name should be the one that is most Credited.
Unfortunately this may mean that the IMDb name shows up in the CLT as the most credited, and we make contributions such as "IMDb Common Name [Credited Name]" - eventually the true credited name will take over in the CLT and we can contribute as "Credited Name" solely. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Want to find credited as names? Use the Credit Lookup Tool.  | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 761 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
You didn't change the "credited as" name, you just added a "common name". The "credit lookup tool" doesn't look at common names. And how many times do we see contribution notes that state "found common name by searching the CLT"? Quite a lot, right? I'm using it myself too. I used the name Henri Decaë, because that's his actual name (see contrib.notes for Le Cercle Rouge for an explanation) and there are only a few profiles with his name. Let's say I want to do that for ... Yun/Fat/Chow ... <runs>  Nah, all kidding aside folks. I'd rather enter "real name [credited name]" and find all the real names in the database, than all the credited names. It's a good thing I don't collect Jess Franco dvd's, because he has used about 50 aliases...  Ofcourse that would mean it should be renamed to "Real Name Lookup Tool" or "Common Name Lookup Tool". Please don't let this thread turn into a Yun-Fat Chow/Chinese name/as credited discussion, or "how to enter Helena Bonham Carter"  That's not the point I'm trying to make. Just discussing other options to improve the database. Not just for the heavy contributors, but also to help people who are just starting to contribute and need simple tools to get the right info. Don't make it harder than it is. | | | | Last edited: by marcelb7 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,311 |
| | Posted: | | | | thing is it don't matter what his name actually is. The way Ken himself said he wanted it is the most commonly credited form. Quoting Ken Cole:Quote:
The lookup tool is not to be blindly trusted, however it does outweigh other sources, including autographs. The common name is not intended to always reflect the "real name", but the most commonly credited name.
However, if a user documents errors in the database where the credit is not entered properly, that can and should be considered. Better yet, correct the entries, assuming you own the discs in question, thereby correcting the lookup results. bold by me... This has come up a few times before... but as Ken already completely clarified his wishes... this is how we need to do it for the online database. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet: Quote:
Here we go again...  Shall I? | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting marcelb7: Quote:
Before my update, according to the CLT:
Henri Decaë: 72/97
Henri Decae: 48/69
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BTW, in "Le clan des siciliens", Henri Decaë is credited HENRI DECAE, which should have been transcripted as Henri Decaë, but was probably transcripted as Henri Decae by some users... (same problem as FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT...) | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Surfeur: Absolutely WRONG. that is your interpretation and inserting non-existent data. It is Henri Decae. And don't bother with the argument I know you are going to attempt to use. If you pay attention you will see things like DECAË. Please note that the phrase used in the Rules is " exactly as they are in the credits". Just in case exactement comme ils sont en crédits Do not insert data which is NOT On Screen. There is method to deal with what you want, surfeur, but the data appears as it does On Screen. Just as with other such issues cultural proclivities are irrelevant. And just as with your overview , I don't care what you THINK is right, I care what is ON SCREEN or the back cover...warts and all. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
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| Registered: March 31, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,796 |
| | Posted: | | | | Whats about Down and Out in Beverly Hills there is a Dog who name is Mike. Credited Mike as Matisse and in There's Something About Mary there is a guy credited as Mike credited Mike as Rest Stop Couple if you take it in credit lookup tool you got this "mike" is credited in the following 40 titles (73 profiles): whats about people or animals who only are credited with first name...??? | | | | Last edited: by ruben. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes, sadly Yves is wrong and I wish that illogical rule "If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead." would be changed to "If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use the standard name instead.", as most names are only credited in all caps so everyone can read it. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,481 |
| | Posted: | | | | in my list of 100 things I like about DVD profiler,, Credit look up must be around #90... | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry |
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