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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Take the Title from the DVD's Front Cover....well maybe not..... |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: May 22, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,033 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Astrakan: Quote:
Quoting Agrare:
Quote:
This title has already been changed and is in the system (at least for the copy I own) as Star Wars: I: The Phantom Menace (pretty sure this got changed, I know the other 5 did). Of course the ordering on the I, Star Wars, and The Phantom Menace could be argued I supposed. But there is no reason too do so, unless you just want to stir up debate.
I was only using that as an example of how this rule can affect other titles. That said, there's definitely an argument to be made for having the "I" first in the title based on sorting from back to front. Or last, if we go from front to back. I'm not going to be the person to make that argument, but the point is that the current rules allow for someone to make it.
Anyway, all this is probably moot now that there's a rule change discussion taking place, and based on the votes it seems the likelyhood of a change is rather high.
KM I didn't think you were planning on making said change. I brought up the fact that this change was made because, when it was made we had this same discussion. In fact, all of the Star Wars titles but Episode I were changed because that was an example giving in the rule in reference to episode descriptors. Ken took that example out, Episode I was resubmitted without the Episode and accepted. I'm glad there will likely be a rule change, but find it disappointing that it required 'bad' data getting added to the database for it to happen. -Agrare |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | It would not change star Wars in any way. The data there is quite clear and as you correctly noted that example was removed by Ken. XMen III is a special case.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: May 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,033 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Again, it was not a deliberate mistake and the contribution was not wrong. It was a perfectly correct contribution according to the current Rules, whether you like it or not! Perfectly correct but also perfectly pointless and adds nothing to the database. I understand that the data is 'Ok' per the rules, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still not useful. Show the cover to any normal person and I would be willing to bet that 99% of them tell you the title is X-Men III: The Last Stand. Or possibly X-Men: The Last Stand. But I doubt the majority will say the title is X III: The Last Stand. Quoting Bodi: Quote:
The idea of Profiler is to cater to those who already have the dvd and to make it as easy as possible for them to enter dvd's and find dvd's...for those that don't have the dvd or have preordered a dvd then I would say those are not as important...that isn't what the program is about. If you wanna research upcoming dvd's....you really should be using websites of the distributors not DVD Profiler...you will get much more useful info directly from the source. Wow, just wow. So if you don't have the DVD you're not allowed to play? Why then is one of the three tabs for your collection that Ken put in called 'Wishlist'? Lots of other tabs for titles you own have been suggested but we are still left with just 3, one of which is for DVDs you don't own. Sure the best way to enter DVD you own is by UPC, but the best way to enter DVDs you don't own is by title. That's why the 'Add To Wishlist' defaults to 'Add by Title'. No one (and I feel pretty confident that it truly is no one) will go, "you know. I'd like to get that third X-Men movie, let me add it to my Wishlists. What was it called again, oh yea, X III: The Last Stand" Plus, I'm sure lots of people that do own the dvd and use profiler (maybe not people that frequent the forums) add their DVDs by title and not UPC even when they own them. Not everybody is as fanatical as some of us. And if I had this title sitting in front of me (I do own it, but added it by UPC) and was adding it by title. I would type in X-Men III not X III. I've had trouble adding titles to my wishlist because of issues like this (M:i 2 anyone. stupid me thought it might be called Mission Impossible 2. That was before I knew about the Title From DVD Cover rule as I'm sure most of the users probably aren't aware of.) Sure that could be solved by having Add/Search by title also search the Original Title. But until/if that is done (and even if it is) shouldn't we use a little common sense with these titles and interpret titles like normal people would? -Agrare |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Let say, I'd like to buy the japanese version of Lady Snowblood and add the dvd to my wishlist. There is no English whatsoever on the cover or the back. How Am I suppose to find it in DVD Profiler? Right now, It was pretty easy because the profile doesn't strictly obey the new rules. I just searched for "Lady Snowblood" with Region 2 and locality Japan and got a match. Now change to title to match the cover with Shurayukihime and it's not so easy to find. Also, very often, the movie will be titled differently in several countries. Just look at the different movie aliases in IMDB to convince yourself. People are saying... It takes only 5 seconds to find the UPC online... Well... let's try with a foreign dvd and see how long it will take you  The dvd for Kill Bill in Japan is another funny example. The cover offers the Title in 2 languages. A dominant "KILL BILL Vol.1" and also the japanese translation "Kiru biru vol.1". The rules tells us to use the language that match the locality. So in this case it will be "Kiru biru vol.1" Then again, trying to find this without the UPC is almost impossible. So, if the rules are to stay as they are, I think the program will need to be chnage to make searching the dvd easier. For example, by adding a copyright title or an english title field. And also to make the search work on all the titles.... Cover, original and copyright. | | | | Last edited: by tarantino |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Common sense, normal people? Barrack Obama referred to "typical white person"?  All very subjective terms that vary from one person to the next. Your common sense might be my "your out of your mind". There are those who would say we aren't normal, Agrare, ask my wife sometime.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pauls42: Quote:
And searching to find a UPC online may work for R1 dvds - but I buy a lot of R2 DVDs.. e.g. I have just ordered a series called "The Street" in R2 land.. I have no idea what this UPC will be - can you tell me after 5 secs of looking? Sorry, my U.S.-centric bias is showing through, here. I "assumed" that online retailers in other parts of the world also had sites that allowed users to pull up products quickly and provide UPC's for them. My error.  I always research online before I add anything to my wishlist, and always use UPC for adding DVDs to my collection; wishlist and ordered anyway. For owned, I just use the UPC on the DVD. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,916 |
| | Posted: | | | | Just to set things straight, it took me 15 seconds from typing the URL for DVD Empire for the very first time until I found the X-Men 3 movie (listed under "X-Men: The Last Stand"). Then it took me another 15 seconds to figure out where the UPC was listed.
Probably next time, it'll take me 18 seconds from start to finish. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 168 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr. Killpatient: Quote:
Just to set things straight, it took me 15 seconds from typing the URL for DVD Empire for the very first time until I found the X-Men 3 movie (listed under "X-Men: The Last Stand"). Then it took me another 15 seconds to figure out where the UPC was listed.
Probably next time, it'll take me 18 seconds from start to finish. So to add X III to one's wishlist now requires inside knowledge of both how this "title" appears on the cover and the common sense-less application of a rule's wording requiring the user to hunt down a URL (regardless of how many seconds it takes) on a web search. Perhaps it's just me, but I don't see how is this a positive selling point for the use of DVD Profiler. | | | | Last edited: by MsPaula |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,916 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree on the selling point. How did I find it on DVD Empire? I searched for "x-men". |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting MtnMike: Quote:
Quoting Dr. Killpatient:
Quote:
Just to set things straight, it took me 15 seconds from typing the URL for DVD Empire for the very first time until I found the X-Men 3 movie (listed under "X-Men: The Last Stand"). Then it took me another 15 seconds to figure out where the UPC was listed.
Probably next time, it'll take me 18 seconds from start to finish.
So to add X III to one's wishlist now requires inside knowledge of both how this "title" appears on the cover and the common sense-less application of a rule's wording requiring the user to hunt down a URL (regardless of how many seconds it takes) on a web search.
Perhaps it's just me, but I don't see how is this a positive selling point for the use of DVD Profiler. From what I understand... No need to have knowledge on how the title appears in DVD Profiler. With this solution, you're supposed to do this for *all* the titles you wish to add  Maybe someone could develop a plug-in to search the UPC from inside the application |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pauls42: Quote:
You seem to have missed off a bit from my post. So in order to help you, I'll post the missing bit again..
"The problem isn't that after I have ordered (and before it arrives) that I may have the wrong UPC. As you have said that doesn't matter since as soon as I get the dvd I check and if necessary update the UPC.
The problem is before I buy the dvd and am checking the range of possible dvds to buy. If I can only find a profile is by entering the UPC then I will only find the single profile - I can't compare to check what different features are available."
As I have said - I need to find it by title so I can compare the different versions.
And the query was about 5 secs was because Hal had stated "Finding a UPC online takes about 5 seconds." Yup...well...it's gonna take a little leg work on your part then I guess...I don't see it as a big deal...and I compare dvd's all the time...across different regions even and that requires me to input all sorts of different titles because of language differences. If you are only talking about comparing English titles then it's no big deal because it's not like you will get 15 different releases of X-men in region 1. If you are comparing across regions then there will always be title differences in which case you will always have to input different titles for comparison...I know...I do it all the time. Quoting tarantino: Quote:
Let say, I'd like to buy the japanese version of Lady Snowblood and add the dvd to my wishlist.
There is no English whatsoever on the cover or the back.
How Am I suppose to find it in DVD Profiler? If you use the title from the film credits you will still get a Japanese title. If you are saying that we should only use English titles for foreign films then that's another argument but we have never done that. We always used the title from the film credits so there is a boatload of foreign titles in DVD Profiler. If you need to know the title of a foreign film there are lots of resources available on the internet...IMDB immediately springs to mind. And actually under the old rules..the title should have been Shurayukihime because it was in the credits and on the cover...we were supposed to use titles from the locality..in this case Japanese...someone who originally input the title just use the English title...but they shouldn't have unless Lady Snowblodd was the actual title in the film credits or on the cover. Or if the title appeared using the Japanese alphabet in which case the English title would have been fine. Quoting Agrare: Quote:
Wow, just wow. So if you don't have the DVD you're not allowed to play? Why then is one of the three tabs for your collection that Ken put in called 'Wishlist'? Lots of other tabs for titles you own have been suggested but we are still left with just 3, one of which is for DVDs you don't own. I never said that did I? I never said you can't play. What I believe though(and I may be wrong, it's just my perspective) is that the program should make it easier for people who are entering dvd's into their database rather than looking for dvd's to purchase. For me the former is more important, hence my position. You may have a different opinion. | | | | Last edited: by Bodi |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 445 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Agrare: Quote:
And if I had this title sitting in front of me (I do own it, but added it by UPC) and was adding it by title. I would type in X-Men III not X III. If you have the dvd sitting in front of you, I think it makes more sense to type in what is on the front cover rather than what you think the title of the movie is or what the movie is commonly known as or what you know the movie to be. But hey.....that's just me. Quoting Agrare: Quote:
No one (and I feel pretty confident that it truly is no one) will go, "you know. I'd like to get that third X-Men movie, let me add it to my Wishlists. What was it called again, oh yea, X III: The Last Stand" There are lots of internet resources for upcoming releases/reviews and dvd in genreral. I use them extensively. I think there are a lot of people who use them as well...and it's highly probably that a lot of people would know that the upcoming X-men movie when it hits stores on dvd will be called X III or whatever. It may be uncommon for you but not for me. I am very aware of upcoming releases and what their titles will be so I guess that is why I don't see this as a problem at all. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Sorry, my U.S.-centric bias is showing through, here. I "assumed" that online retailers in other parts of the world also had sites that allowed users to pull up products quickly and provide UPC's for them. My error.
I always research online before I add anything to my wishlist, and always use UPC for adding DVDs to my collection; wishlist and ordered anyway. For owned, I just use the UPC on the DVD. if only the UPCs were available easily for R2 releases..  Ps you have a green tick for this post. | | | | Paul |
| | Registered: March 26, 2007 | | Posts: 196 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Bodi: Quote:
There are lots of internet resources for upcoming releases/reviews and dvd in genreral. I use them extensively. I think there are a lot of people who use them as well...and it's highly probably that a lot of people would know that the upcoming X-men movie when it hits stores on dvd will be called X III or whatever. It may be uncommon for you but not for me. I am very aware of upcoming releases and what their titles will be so I guess that is why I don't see this as a problem at all. I fail to see any scenario in which having "X III" in the database is more valuable than having the actual title of the film. |
| | Registered: July 7, 2007 |  Posts: 284 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Patsa: Quote:
Nobody is forcing you to reply to them. But then again, HE is the one who started this post. You don't barge in on peoples' conversations in the middle of the street just to say it's time to move on do you? | | | My DVD's
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive? |
| | Registered: July 7, 2007 | | Posts: 284 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tarantino: Quote:
Let say, I'd like to buy the japanese version of Lady Snowblood and add the dvd to my wishlist.
There is no English whatsoever on the cover or the back.
How Am I suppose to find it in DVD Profiler?
Right now, It was pretty easy because the profile doesn't strictly obey the new rules.
I just searched for "Lady Snowblood" with Region 2 and locality Japan and got a match.
Now change to title to match the cover with Shurayukihime and it's not so easy to find.
Also, very often, the movie will be titled differently in several countries. Just look at the different movie aliases in IMDB to convince yourself.
People are saying... It takes only 5 seconds to find the UPC online...
Well... let's try with a foreign dvd and see how long it will take you
The dvd for Kill Bill in Japan is another funny example. The cover offers the Title in 2 languages.
A dominant "KILL BILL Vol.1" and also the japanese translation "Kiru biru vol.1". The rules tells us to use the language that match the locality. So in this case it will be "Kiru biru vol.1"
Then again, trying to find this without the UPC is almost impossible.
So, if the rules are to stay as they are, I think the program will need to be chnage to make searching the dvd easier. For example, by adding a copyright title or an english title field.
And also to make the search work on all the titles.... Cover, original and copyright. Isn't that what the original title field is for? Japanese locality DVD's should be based on japanese, not english so this title should be the japanese translations, even if that means english talking localities experience a minor nuiscance because of it. Anyway, perhaps a searchoption on original title could fix this problem? | | | My DVD's
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive? |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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