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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Using 'Credited As' to Regulate Spaces in Names with Initials? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
It might just mean the exact same thing... Agree.. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
... but for about the last six months MOST of my data has stayed home... As you promote rules, that reach the near perfection, and since you want to build a perfect database, why have you stopped contributing ????  PLEASE, Skip. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
... but for about the last six months MOST of my data has stayed home...
As you promote rules, that reach the near perfection, and since you want to build a perfect database, why have you stopped contributing ????
PLEASE, Skip.  why don't you follow the rules?????????? | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Giga's motion seconded and thirded and passed.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
... but for about the last six months MOST of my data has stayed home...
As you promote rules, that reach the near perfection, and since you want to build a perfect database, why have you stopped contributing ????
PLEASE, Skip. It was a personal decision, but you did have a hand in it, surfeur, BUT you weren't alone. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Giga's motion seconded and thirded and passed.
Skip I hardly understand what you mean, as I blocked that user. Edit : and please, do not quote him, I don't need any explanation...  | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | surfeur51  ... | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Your loss.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Why should they be different simply because of the lack of a space?
I know you like to see these as separate issues, but to me they are exactly the same, so I'm going to drag this in here one more time: IMHO, this is exactly the same as how we deal with suffixes.
(...)
I do not 'like' to see these as separate issues, they are separate. One deals with data, the other deals with parsing. One is covered by the rules, the other is not. If a comma exists in the credits, we must enter it. If a comma doesn't exist in the data, we cannot add one. Like it or not, those are the rules and there is no getting around it. There are no rules for the parsing of initials. Because of that, we can decide to do it in a way that is simple and easy. In my opinion, that way is the same default standard some of us are already using for every other name. '1/2/3' unless it can be documented that it is different. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Why should they be different simply because of the lack of a space?
I know you like to see these as separate issues, but to me they are exactly the same, so I'm going to drag this in here one more time: IMHO, this is exactly the same as how we deal with suffixes.
(...)
I do not 'like' to see these as separate issues, they are separate. One deals with data, the other deals with parsing. One is covered by the rules, the other is not.
If a comma exists in the credits, we must enter it. If a comma doesn't exist in the data, we cannot add one. Like it or not, those are the rules and there is no getting around it.
There are no rules for the parsing of initials. Because of that, we can decide to do it in a way that is simple and easy. In my opinion, that way is the same default standard some of us are already using for every other name. '1/2/3' unless it can be documented that it is different. I beg to differ, Unicus. Everything you say about the comma in the credits applies to the space. "If a space exists in the credits, we must enter it. If a space doesn't exist in the data, we cannot add one." There is absolutely no difference -- whether or not J.K. is the same as J. K. is NOT a matter of parsing. On this I'll agree with Skip that to be completely totally we would have to treat the space the same way as the comma. But having said that, I think we're carrying accuracy to a ridiculous extreme here. There's virtually no possiblity that J.K. Simmons is NOT the same person as J. K. Simmons. And there is virtually no possiblity that Robert Downey, Jr. is not the same person as Robert Downey Jr. We are only creating way too much work for ourselves if we insist on showing them as J. K. Simmons [J.K. Simmons] and Robert Downey Jr. [Robert Downey, Jr.]. If we do it that way, we must then reach some consensus as to which is the COMMON name so we then know which is the Credited As name. This cries out for pinponging of contributions among users who (1) don't know which is "correct" or (2) don't agree which is "correct." We are wasting a lot of time trying to make the data 1000% accurate -- at the expense of usability of the data. And we're ending up chasing our tails. It makes far more sense to apply a standard here. I realize standardization is anathema to some people, but there are far more important issues to deal with than demanding that the name strictly match what is on screen letter by letter display when dealing with double initials or commas in suffixes. We should pick one or the other and use it for all cases. That way linking is easily facilitated. Otherwise, we have to jump through all sorts of hoops to get the linking done. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,014 |
| | Posted: | | | | Fully agree, Ken!  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ken:
If I follow you correctly, I agree. here is what I do, because I agree these particular types of names are OBVIOUS.
Per Rules one name style is already set. J./K./Simmons. So if I run into J.K., I simply would enter J./K./Simmons CA (J.K. Simmons) and the nore would read Common Name set simply to reflect ACTUAL crediting. WE coul do the SAME thing with formatting issue once we settle on it. As I noted due to some things being done elsewhere,, I think out formatting should be Robert Downey, Jr., Thus if that were the formatting style, our name would be Robert Downey, Jr. and IF we ran across a Robert Downey Jr credit we would simply do the same thing as I outlined above quick, simple and relatively painless. It also allows us to maintain database accuracy and integrity.
My focus is always on database accuracy to our standard, our standard is the film credits. Thats standard is visual and easy for all users maintain. All you have to do is look at the On Screen hard data and compare it to our data. There is a second level of accuracy which is handled through the Common Name, which because it is not based on HARD data which you can see is GENERALLY backed up via documentation of some form. But this particular issue, would be simply the HARD DATA versus how our system functions.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote:
I beg to differ, Unicus. Everything you say about the comma in the credits applies to the space. "If a space exists in the credits, we must enter it. If a space doesn't exist in the data, we cannot add one." There is absolutely no difference -- whether or not J.K. is the same as J. K. is NOT a matter of parsing. On this I'll agree with Skip that to be completely totally we would have to treat the space the same way as the comma.
(...)
Maybe I am walking a fine line here, but when I parse 'J.K. Simmons' as 'J./K./Simmons', I am not adding any spaces. I am simply putting each name into the field, I believe, it belongs in. I know we had a conversation about initials a LONG time ago. The concensus, unless my memory is severely flawed, was as follows: Names that included periods or a space...'J.K. Simmons', 'J. K. Simmons' or 'J K Simmons'...would be parsed 'first/middle/last'. Names without periods...'JK Simmons'...would be parsed 'first/ /last'. Again, just my opinion...and recollection...your mileage will vary.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Names that included periods or a space...'J.K. Simmons', 'J. K. Simmons' or 'J K Simmons'...would be parsed 'first/middle/last'.
Names without periods...'JK Simmons'...would be parsed 'first/ /last'. I more or less said the same thing on page 1, so obviously I agree. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
I beg to differ, Unicus. Everything you say about the comma in the credits applies to the space. "If a space exists in the credits, we must enter it. If a space doesn't exist in the data, we cannot add one." There is absolutely no difference -- whether or not J.K. is the same as J. K. is NOT a matter of parsing. On this I'll agree with Skip that to be completely totally we would have to treat the space the same way as the comma.
(...)
Maybe I am walking a fine line here, but when I parse 'J.K. Simmons' as 'J./K./Simmons', I am not adding any spaces. I am simply putting each name into the field, I believe, it belongs in.
I know we had a conversation about initials a LONG time ago. The concensus, unless my memory is severely flawed, was as follows:
Names that included periods or a space...'J.K. Simmons', 'J. K. Simmons' or 'J K Simmons'...would be parsed 'first/middle/last'.
Names without periods...'JK Simmons'...would be parsed 'first/ /last'.
Again, just my opinion...and recollection...your mileage will vary. I don't know where my mind was when I posted the above -- since it would only matter if J.K. and J. K. were going into a single field (J.K. // Last vs J. K.//Last.) Putting them into first/middle/last as you suggest makes the space after J. irrelevant. I thought that people were making the argument that it should be: J./K./Simmons or J.K.//Simmons based on whether or not there was an intervening space. What I hoped we could avoid is using the CA, but I suppose that's not feasible. Although, while the CLT is filled with "bad" data it may take a while to get a true consensus as to which should be the common name (presumably J./K./Simmons CA J.K. Simmons). As I said earlier in the thread, that's the option I voted for, albeit reluctantly. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 | | | | Last edited: by kdh1949 |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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