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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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The rule that says my contribution didn't follow the rules doesn't follow the rules |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 10, 2007 |  Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Normally when there is no role name I will just leave the role blank in profiler. Pete is on the money. This is perfectly acceptable, and when in doubt of the validity of the source, the right option every time. For major roles, it can also be worthwhile to pull them from the film itself. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well, so much for my contributions of cast in the future!  As long as we're taking the credits directly from the DVD, I don't see the issue, but..... Apparently blank data is preferred. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Up to now, what I've been doing in cases where the on-disc credits do not contain role names is first of all check if the DVD cover or DVD inlay contains role names and if so, take them from there. If not, what I've always done is to use at least three independent third-party sources (if possible: including the official site for the movie or TV series) to identify role names. Contributions like these have always been accepted. From Ken's rule modification I gather that continuing this practice is acceptable only if these "independent third-party sources" are not commercial. Am I right? The challenge then becomes to establish whether a third-party source is commercial or not. A list of permissable sources could help there (I'm thinking of the likes of BFI etc.). Any thoughts on this? P.S. Documenting role names identified by watching the film or TV episode (especially the latter, where not mentioning role names for main characters is very common) can become quite a burden. To properly document them, you would need to list a time stamp for every single character where the role name is mentioned. Do we really want to go down that road? |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,738 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Documenting role names identified by watching the film or TV episode (especially the latter, where not mentioning role names for main characters is very common) can become quite a burden. To properly document them, you would need to list a time stamp for every single character where the role name is mentioned. Do we really want to go down that road? Well, I sure don't! I'll thoroughly research my own data, submit it once, and if it's not accepted, then others are going to have to do the work, and I'll just enjoy my data locally. |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Up to now, what I've been doing in cases where the on-disc credits do not contain role names is first of all check if the DVD cover or DVD inlay contains role names and if so, take them from there. If not, what I've always done is to use at least three independent third-party sources (if possible: including the official site for the movie or TV series) to identify role names. Contributions like these have always been accepted. Not likely to be of any use for older movies which quite often do not list roles. Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
From Ken's rule modification I gather that continuing this practice is acceptable only if these "independent third-party sources" are not commercial. Am I right? So it would seem. Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
P.S.
Documenting role names identified by watching the film or TV episode (especially the latter, where not mentioning role names for main characters is very common) can become quite a burden. To properly document them, you would need to list a time stamp for every single character where the role name is mentioned. Do we really want to go down that road? If sitting in front of a screen and transcribing credits as you watch the movie becomes the requirement, it just won't happen. And then you'll have never-ending arguments about spelling of those role names. No thanks. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
I'll thoroughly research my own data, submit it once, and if it's not accepted, then others are going to have to do the work, and I'll just enjoy my data locally. This is exactly what I've done for the TV series profiles that I've submited at this date (most of them are the canadian release of Charmed). Evidently it's easier to find the role info on these recent show than with a 30 years old show. All of them were approved and if it would have been not the case, I would have keep them in my database as they are since they're ok for me. |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Not likely to be of any use for older movies which quite often do not list roles. The same goes for MANY TV series! Hence my question about whether the likes of BFI would be acceptable. If not, Invelos is not going to get many contributions for role names any more... Quoting hal9g: Quote:
If sitting in front of a screen and transcribing credits as you watch the movie becomes the requirement, it just won't happen. And then you'll have never-ending arguments about spelling of those role names. No thanks. Fully agree, Hal! |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ken has now clarified in this thread that in fact nothing has changed. Phew!  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | The only problem I see with getting the credits from the film itself is that it requires that the viewer recognizes the face of every actor onscreen. For some films and especially TV shows that's really difficult. The worst offender of this in my collection is The Wire where they don't list ANY role names at all. It's probably not too hard to identify the principal cast of a show like The Wire, but there are a lot of people in supporting who may only be in one or two episodes of the season. And, there are a lot of local personalities (local to Baltimore, MD) in supporting roles (not all of them professional actors) who those of us from Maryland might recognize but people who live elsewhere would not.
I will frequently use a combination of sources to try and come up with role names . Some may all link back to IMDb but others do not: imdb, epguides.com, the TV show or network website, all movie guide, the Closed Captioning or subtitles of the film/episode.
One thing I do try to do when the roles aren't listed in the credits is keep them simple: For example Capt. Kirk vs Capt. James Tiberius ("Jim") Kirk. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Thanks for the clarification, however, this restriction is going to make it very difficult to "document" the entry of rolenames that are not in the actual credits.
Perhaps we need to start a thread listing resources that are permissible and readily available to capture this data, which I believe to be very important! I don't think it is going to cause any problems. The issue here is that...based on the notes...the episodes were not watched so the contributor did not know what was, or wasn't, contained in those credits. Based on the notes alone, it sounded like he copied the credits, cast and crew, directly from IMDb. That is not allowed. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Thanks for the clarification, however, this restriction is going to make it very difficult to "document" the entry of rolenames that are not in the actual credits.
Perhaps we need to start a thread listing resources that are permissible and readily available to capture this data, which I believe to be very important!
I don't think it is going to cause any problems. The issue here is that...based on the notes...the episodes were not watched so the contributor did not know what was, or wasn't, contained in those credits. Based on the notes alone, it sounded like he copied the credits, cast and crew, directly from IMDb. That is not allowed. I understand the reason why this particular profile was declined and was not addressing that in my quoted response above. Ken had amended the Rules just before I posted that to say in essence, no third party commercial databases could be be used for rolenames. I was responding to that. He later amended that Rule again to the way it reads now, which does allow us to use 3rd party commercial databases as long as we don't "mass copy" stuff. To me that is more than a fine distinction. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 278 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
The rules as written do not allow this submission. From the submitted notes for this contribution: "IMDB was used only for those episodes I haven't watched yet". The rules specifically state that the cast list must come from the DVD credits directly. It allows the roles from another source, but not the cast list. Therefore, the decline was per rules and stands.
The role issue is not related to this contribution decline, however it does require clarification. I have added a specific clarification that should prevent confusion. The cast list DID come from the DVD. Only the role names came from IMDB. If you're going to quote me, Ken, be honest about it. "Cast and Crew from DVDs, some role names do not appear in credits, so IMDB was used only for those episodes I haven't watched yet." |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well Leiter, in that case, i have to go along with the Screeners. Use of IMDb because you haven't watched them yet is not an acceptable reason in my book. I would not submit such data.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
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Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Leiterfluid: Quote:
The cast list DID come from the DVD. Only the role names came from IMDB. If you're going to quote me, Ken, be honest about it.
"Cast and Crew from DVDs, some role names do not appear in credits, so IMDB was used only for those episodes I haven't watched yet." I had no intention of being dishonest. It would be best to specify in the notes how you got the cast names "from the DVD" without watching the episode. Did you mean that you specifically watched the end credits to pull the credit information, but did not watch the rest of the episode? If so, that was not clear to me or to the original contribution evaluator from your contribution notes. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative | | | | Last edited: by Ken Cole |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 278 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yeah,
It actually sounds goofy, but I wanted to get all the credits in before I left on my trip to DC this week, so I put in all the discs, skipped to the opening and end credits, and got the entire cast list
Just to reiterate, I used IMDB to provide role names where there are no roles provided (usually about five names or so from the opening credits of each episode), and in most cases, I had been able to verify the accuracy of the role names by watching the episodes themselves. There were some I had not yet watched, and couldn't completely vouch for, but for those that I did watch, the role names were accurate. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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