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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Using Dividers for Cast |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | There is a submission which has the cast listed using dividers. I asked Skip in a PM about it (it is one of his), since there is no rolls listed. My question was whether or not I missed the discussion and is this something we were going to do with other movies. He obviously isn't in the mood for a simple discussion so I thought I'd get some other opinions. Please keep in mind I am not disagreeing with what he submitted, but it does seem to set a precedence (at least to me) here is a clip of some of it  Since the dividers are there I guess we no longer use the roll? Not sure I agree with that but I can live with it as well. What about other films? Star Wars ep III has a bunch of people credited as "Wookie". Are we to change that? A coupld more examples I found real quick were LoTR - FotR which has "Hero Orcs, Goblins, Uruks & Ringwraiths" A Bridge too Far has 25 people simply listed as "Soldier"  Seems like a perfect place to use the divider IF this is something we are going to do. I'm sure there are many others. Actually I guessed at 4 and three of them had it. you can pretty much figure out what type of movie will have this type of credit. Those of you who have done more audits than I are most likely even better at picking them out of the group.  Skips reply was "I know a divider when I see it" (hope you don't mind me sharing that Skip, you've said it publicly before so I figured it was OK) While I probably agree with him I don't know that it is something we should use to guide us. I do understand we can't write a rule for everything and I am not attacking Skip for his submission at all. Fact is I like it but I am curious to see what other people think and if this is something we should be looking for when we do submissions for the main Db. (if so it would probably need some sort of mention in the rules, but that's another discussion for the other forum  ) | | | | Last edited: by lyonsden5 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Also, Rick make note that there is adivider that I did not use because it the set of actors are formatted in a totally different from the headers(dividers)
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,119 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think it is a creative use of dividers. I don't see anything in the rules about not doing using dividers that way. It would be good if we had the ability to nestle dividers inside other divider groups.
Add: But after entering a cast divider for a group of actors, how do you revert to the regular actor listings un-divided? | | | | Last edited: by Doombear |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Doom:
Its very early, I haven't seen this much..yet. though I am sure i will. Using the OnScreen data as reference, I have seen ONE where the filmmakers essentially inserted a blank line and One where they did not.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 235 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lyonsden5: Quote:
There is a submission which has the cast listed using dividers. I asked Skip in a PM about it (it is one of his), since there is no rolls listed. My question was whether or not I missed the discussion and is this something we were going to do with other movies. He obviously isn't in the mood for a simple discussion so I thought I'd get some other opinions. There was never a discussion concerning this but there should have been. I entered stuntmen included in a cast list and I got blasted for not bringing it here first.  That being said, if people want to go this route, it has to be included in the rules. At the moment, the rules say to enter a role. I know, there isn't a role listed with the name, but the rules cover that as well when they say, "If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use another source to identify the role." In this case, the other source would be the cast headings. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: April 4, 2007 |  Posts: 886 |
| | Posted: | | | | I really don't like this idea. While I agree on using dividers here, there should still be roles. I know it's redundant info BUT if we don't set a rule you won't able to tell an actors role in a movie when looking at his list of movies. And that's an important feature of the program imho. | | | | - Jan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,119 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hydr0x: Quote:
I really don't like this idea. While I agree on using dividers here, there should still be roles. I know it's redundant info BUT if we don't set a rule you won't able to tell an actors role in a movie when looking at his list of movies. And that's an important feature of the program imho. Good point, hydr0x! Perhaps the actor's query could be updated to show which divider they're under - it would certainly benefit TV series actors and immediately seeing which episode(s) they were in. | | | | Last edited: by Doombear |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting lyonsden5:
Quote:
There is a submission which has the cast listed using dividers. I asked Skip in a PM about it (it is one of his), since there is no rolls listed. My question was whether or not I missed the discussion and is this something we were going to do with other movies. He obviously isn't in the mood for a simple discussion so I thought I'd get some other opinions.
There was never a discussion concerning this but there should have been. I entered stuntmen included in a cast list and I got blasted for not bringing it here first.
That being said, if people want to go this route, it has to be included in the rules. At the moment, the rules say to enter a role. I know, there isn't a role listed with the name, but the rules cover that as well when they say, "If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use another source to identify the role." In this case, the other source would be the cast headings. First, there are some films that don't have roles, and you'll never be able to find any source for them because they don't exist. Adult movies is one example. Second, the rule is to enter the cast list "as credited" and in the order presented. Before, we didn't have the capability to comply with that 100% if the cast was broken down on screen into labeled sections. Now, with dividers, we do. So, it seems to me that using dividers to create those labels is perfectly within the rules and comes under the "as credited" rule. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: April 8, 2007 | | Posts: 72 |
| | Posted: | | | | I've got to say I really like the use of dividers here. They make the whole thing look clean and easy to read.
A divider that could be added, and impart it's text as the role of the actors/crew listed under it would be great. Basically like Standard Dividers,which work as current ones do, And Cast/Crew Dividers, which would prompt you for cast/crew that should be listed under that heading, thereby linking name to role. | | | Always remember that the crowd that applauds your coronation is the same crowd that will applaud your beheading. People like a show.
- Terry Pratchett "Going Postal" |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 742 |
| | Posted: | | | | I, too, do like this use of the divider function.
Although adding the same role over and over again is not "pretty", I can understand the necessity to do so for search reasons. So I'm alright with that as well.
However, this is not following "as credited" if we add the roles that are not listed, it's also not following "as credited" if we create the divider for groups of actors all listed with the same roles (something that should be done if we apply this approach as well).
For contribution and presentation purposes, I think that a bit of leeway on "as credited" is OK | | | | Lutz |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Darxon: Quote:
I, too, do like this use of the divider function.
Although adding the same role over and over again is not "pretty", I can understand the necessity to do so for search reasons. So I'm alright with that as well.
However, this is not following "as credited" if we add the roles that are not listed, it's also not following "as credited" if we create the divider for groups of actors all listed with the same roles (something that should be done if we apply this approach as well).
For contribution and presentation purposes, I think that a bit of leeway on "as credited" is OK What do you mean its not 'as credited'? Did you not read what I said above? What about 'Lord of the Rings' where the entire cast list is broken down into sections with labels? | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 906 |
| | Posted: | | | | This was, in part, discussed in this threadI have no idea what title Skip contributed too, but from what little info I have, it looks OK (mostly because they have no roles and I can't see the entire cast list). What I don't like though, is if we use it for, for example, four stormtroopers or the orcs in Lord of the Rings. I also see a problem when we break out of the created group again. In the old thread, it was suggested to use a blank divider. I don't like that at all. It looks terrible and isn't very self explaining. I would guess some (if not many) will find the empty divider confusing, wondering why we use one. In general, I'm against the use of dividers for movies like Star Wars and LotR, but can see the use of it in certain documentaries EDIT: And of course the search argument. When I click on an actor, I want to see the role he is having without needing to enter the LotR profile to see that he is an orc | | | 
The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity | | | | Last edited: by reybr |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,293 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
In general, I'm against the use of dividers for movies like Star Wars and LotR, but can see the use of it in certain documentaries Hmm, not sure about that... I don't think you should have one rule for one and one for another... it will only lead to potential interpretations and ping-ponging. Quote:
EDIT: And of course the search argument. When I click on an actor, I want to see the role he is having without needing to enter the LotR profile to see that he is an orc Now that I will certainly agree with. | | | | It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote:
EDIT: And of course the search argument. When I click on an actor, I want to see the role he is having without needing to enter the LotR profile to see that he is an orc This is the only real problem I have with it. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 906 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Voltaire53: Quote:
Quoting reybr:
Quote:
In general, I'm against the use of dividers for movies like Star Wars and LotR, but can see the use of it in certain documentaries
Hmm, not sure about that... I don't think you should have one rule for one and one for another... it will only lead to potential interpretations and ping-ponging.
I agree that it would lead to different interpretations and pingponging with a rule for different kind of movies. I don't really want to see those dividers anywhere, I just stated that I could see the use of them in some movies As lyonsden said that Skip said: "I know a divider when I see it". Not exactly something we can use in the rules though | | |
The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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