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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Series vs Seasons and the 'Multiple Complete TV' Rule |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,293 |
| | Posted: | | | | A discussion has 'broken out' over the meaning of the Rule:
In rare cases where multiple Complete TV Series are packaged together, the Box-set rules can be applied, treating each series like a single film - applying the above rules for it’s individual profile
Does this mean when you get a 'Complete Collection' type of release (such as all Star Trek: TNG in one package etc) it should be a boxset parent profile (ie no cast/crew etc) and child profiles of each of the individual seasons/series OR would this only apply if you packaged (say) Star Trek: TNG S1 and Star Trek: DS9 S1 together?
I think use of the word 'Series' in the Rule is the area under discussion as (for example) UK TV will usually refer to Program Name Series 1 whereas in the US it's Program Name Season 1 and the whole of Program Name is regarded as the Series.
For UK programmes this different usage often is applied for the US/R1 market too (All Creatures Great and Small for example has Series 1 / Series 2 etc on the cover in the R2 and R1 editions)
Basically I think it boils down to, does 'Series' in the Rule cover/include 'Season' or do they actually have to be different programmes entirely before we treat them as a box set?
I do note that even in R1 some seem to be treated one way (Doctor Who: Tey to Time is a box set parent profile with each serial a child) and some another (Buffy: Complete Collection has all the info at the top level... though it hasn't all been filled in which I'm not too surprised about!)
(Note: I'm ignoring the 'can be' rather than 'should be' argument fo now as that's another story) | | | | It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 555 |
| | Posted: | | | | I voted for the 1st alternative. IMO, in a box set collection of different seasons each season should be treated the same as any movie in a box set would be treated, and the main box set/parent profile should be blank. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | While I like the idea of #2, it would result in very, very long cast/crew credits in the profile.
The season sets credits are already long as it is now, I can't fathom how long they would be if they were all in just one main profile. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,293 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Behemot: Quote:
I voted for the 1st alternative. IMO, in a box set collection of different seasons each season should be treated the same as any movie in a box set would be treated, and the main box set/parent profile should be blank. FWIW that's my belief too... it just always struck me until now that that was the purpose of the Rule but now it's been raised I started wandering. Quoting CubbyUps: Quote:
The season sets credits are already long as it is now, I can't fathom how long they would be if they were all in just one main profile Quite... could be over 140 cast lists in there... which must be kept 'in line' with any changes made to the individual season profiles! | | | | It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong | | | | Last edited: by Voltaire53 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,263 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Voltaire53: Quote:
now it's been raised I started wandering.
Really? Anywhere interesting?  | | | | IVS Registered: January 2, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,293 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lithurge: Quote:
Quoting Voltaire53:
Quote:
now it's been raised I started wandering.
Really? Anywhere interesting? LOL | | | | It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,594 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Voltaire53: Quote:
Does this mean when you get a 'Complete Collection' type of release (such as all Star Trek: TNG in one package etc) it should be a boxset parent profile (ie no cast/crew etc) and child profiles of each of the individual seasons/series OR would this only apply if you packaged (say) Star Trek: TNG S1 and Star Trek: DS9 S1 together? Yes. That's my understanding of the rule. I purchased the Star Trek: The Next Generation: The Complete Seasons 1-7 and set up the parent profile as you would a normal box set (ie no cast/crew etc). I added the child profiles as you would a normal box set. Could you imagine what the parent profile would look like if I were to include the cast & crew for all 175 episodes?  . I'd be scrolling for days... I plan on doing the same for Star Trek: Voyager as soon as I get a second mortgage on the house to pay for it . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection | | | | Last edited: by Bad Father |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 951 |
| | Posted: | | | | In rare cases where multiple Complete TV Series are packaged together, the Box-set rules can be applied, treating each series like a single film - applying the above rules for it’s individual profile.
Remember the rule says can be applied, not must be applied.
I voted let me explain.
Problem with complete series is some are very short while others are quite long. Take Buffy Choosen Collection, 7 seasons. Would I like to see all cast and crew from every episode in the Parent, No. But, would I vote no because someone took the time to add it all using episode dividers, No because they are following the rules.
However some series are quite short, Strangers with Candy is only three seasons with only 10 episodes per season. So it really isn't much different than a typical 23 episode season.
Right now I like the way Ken has set it up allowing contributions for either the Parent, Child or Both it's up the contributors to decied what to contribute. | | | Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. |
|   | Kevin | | Registered March 22, 2001 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 609 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think this gets into the realm of grandchildren profiles. Now, I'm not a fan of all the data in the parent profile in the tv season sets, but I live with it. I much prefer the child profiles, because you don't have to wade through tons of credits to see episode information for the season. If I want to see who was in episode 17 of Buffy Year 3, I can just go to the child profile for that disc and look, instead of scroll down through all the episodes in the parent profile. But with Season Sets, I think parent should be like box set, children like box set, and then the cast and crew and stuff in individual disc profiles (grandchildren). But that's me. I will probably never be rich enough to afford season sets of shows.  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is a perfect example of the hypocrisy of treating TV sets and movie sets differently. We had a huge fight (several fights actually) before settling on the current method of master/child profiles for each TV season, and have to include ALL the stuff in the master to satisfy certain people. There is NO DIFFERENCE between a single TV season and a mega set, except that it's MORE. And guess what? Putting six, or seven, or ten seasons worth of stuff in the master IS really stupid and cumbersome, and a royal pain to work with - JUST LIKE WE TOLD YOU IT WOULD BE! So, now, you all want to vote to not do the megasets the same way. If it wasn't so damn sad, I'd be laughing my ass off. I promise I won't say I told you so... not too many times anyway!  | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,293 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Tracer: Quote:
In rare cases where multiple Complete TV Series are packaged together, the Box-set rules can be applied, treating each series like a single film - applying the above rules for it’s individual profile.
Remember the rule says can be applied, not must be applied. I know... which does make things 'interesting'... FWIW I personally would only not apply the Rule in quite rare circumstances, such as the Dallas boxsets when Seasons 1 and 2 are one set because Season 1 was essentially a 'pilot' season of only 5 episodes so sort of like I wouldn't treat a pilot as a separate season... but as you rightly point out it is open to interpretation which makes for potential problems. Essentially I sort of agree with you but my 'threshold' of when to leave it as one profile is much lower! | | | | It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong | | | | Last edited: by Voltaire53 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
This is a perfect example of the hypocrisy of treating TV sets and movie sets differently.
We had a huge fight (several fights actually) before settling on the current method of master/child profiles for each TV season, and have to include ALL the stuff in the master to satisfy certain people.
There is NO DIFFERENCE between a single TV season and a mega set, except that it's MORE. And guess what? Putting six, or seven, or ten seasons worth of stuff in the master IS really stupid and cumbersome, and a royal pain to work with - JUST LIKE WE TOLD YOU IT WOULD BE!
So, now, you all want to vote to not do the megasets the same way. If it wasn't so damn sad, I'd be laughing my ass off.
I promise I won't say I told you so... not too many times anyway! The "difference" in this case is that each individual TV Season usually has it's own UPC, and an existing profile in the main database (please don't come back with the obvious statement that that's not always true...I've already conceded that). Doing a full series often (not always) just means adding the existing season profiles to a "boxset" parent profile which also has it's own UPC. That means applying the same Rules as are applied to the Movie Boxsets. Unlike you, I believe people are smart enough to be able to make this distinction. Not sure why I bother to respond to this stuff. You have an agenda that you refuse to give up even after Ken has made it clear how he wants this stuff done. Ken has two sections: one for Movie Boxsets and one for TV Sets. Why? Because he wants them done differently! Why don't you just accept it? | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Kevin | | Registered March 22, 2001 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 609 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
If it wasn't so damn sad, I'd be laughing my ass off. Don't do that John. How will you be able to sit down then? |
| | Kevin | | Registered March 22, 2001 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 609 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Ken has made it clear how he wants this stuff done. Ken has two sections: one for Movie Boxsets and one for TV Sets. Why? Because he wants them done differently!
Why don't you just accept it? Because Ken has shown that he is willing to listen to different opinions, and suggestions to make changes to the rules. Why is there a Rules Committee? At least try to stay open-minded. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,432 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
This is a perfect example of the hypocrisy of treating TV sets and movie sets differently.
We had a huge fight (several fights actually) before settling on the current method of master/child profiles for each TV season, and have to include ALL the stuff in the master to satisfy certain people.
There is NO DIFFERENCE between a single TV season and a mega set, except that it's MORE. And guess what? Putting six, or seven, or ten seasons worth of stuff in the master IS really stupid and cumbersome, and a royal pain to work with - JUST LIKE WE TOLD YOU IT WOULD BE!
So, now, you all want to vote to not do the megasets the same way. If it wasn't so damn sad, I'd be laughing my ass off.
I promise I won't say I told you so... not too many times anyway! Why don't you wait how the vote goes before spraying your venom... If we make each Season/Series a Box Set, then there is no way to make the profile for the "Mega Set" the parent... On the other hand, so far (as of my post) the majority has voted to treat the "Mega Set" as a Box Set, so the "Mega Set" profile is the "empty parent" and the children "Season/Series" profiles have all the data. | | | Achim [諾亞信； Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
This is a perfect example of the hypocrisy of treating TV sets and movie sets differently.
We had a huge fight (several fights actually) before settling on the current method of master/child profiles for each TV season, and have to include ALL the stuff in the master to satisfy certain people.
There is NO DIFFERENCE between a single TV season and a mega set, except that it's MORE. And guess what? Putting six, or seven, or ten seasons worth of stuff in the master IS really stupid and cumbersome, and a royal pain to work with - JUST LIKE WE TOLD YOU IT WOULD BE!
So, now, you all want to vote to not do the megasets the same way. If it wasn't so damn sad, I'd be laughing my ass off.
I promise I won't say I told you so... not too many times anyway!
The "difference" in this case is that each individual TV Season usually has it's own UPC, and an existing profile in the main database (please don't come back with the obvious statement that that's not always true...I've already conceded that).
Doing a full series often (not always) just means adding the existing season profiles to a "boxset" parent profile which also has it's own UPC. That means applying the same Rules as are applied to the Movie Boxsets. Unlike you, I believe people are smart enough to be able to make this distinction.
Not sure why I bother to respond to this stuff. You have an agenda that you refuse to give up even after Ken has made it clear how he wants this stuff done. Ken has two sections: one for Movie Boxsets and one for TV Sets. Why? Because he wants them done differently!
Why don't you just accept it? And there you go, assuming again. Ken has never said that as far as I'm aware. That just happens to be the way it was set up initially. Many things have changed over the last 5 years that we don't do like we did in beginning. Nothing is writ in stone. And you still didn't refute one iota of what I said - because you can't. YOU, in fact, were one of the chief proponents of profiling TV sets with everything in BOTH the master and child, and wouldn't listen to anybody saying any different. Be that as it may, I DO have an agenda - on this specific issue - and I'm open and upfront about it and always have been. That's a hell of a lot morel than I can say about you. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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