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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
Songwriters for Songs that Sample other Songs
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRizor
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Hello. I tried searching but didn't find this covered. For new songs written for a movie which sample (use bits from) older songs, should we credit the original song writers if they are listed in the film's credits?

I'm currently looking at the songs from the 2013 film of "The Great Gatsby". The song "Bang Bang" by will.i.am was written for the film. It features samples of the songs "Bang Bang (My Baby Shot Me Down)" written by Sonny Bono in 1966 and "Charleston" written by James P. Johnson and Cecil Mack in 1923. The song writers listed for this new song are will.i.am (credited as William Adams), Sonny Bono, James P. Johnson and Cecil Mack. Do we include all the song writers? Or just will.i.am since the other writers did not actively write new material?
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 Last edited: by Rizor
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributortweeter
I aim to misbehave
Registered: June 12, 2007
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Were it me i wouldn't include any songs with enough old material they require crediting people who've been 15 years dead.

That would not be original by any definition i now.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Quoting tweeter:
Quote:
i wouldn't include any songs with enough old material they require crediting people who've been 15 years dead.

I think this is the way to go.  They're not "original" if the original song writers are also credited.

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMerrik
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Registered: September 30, 2008
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I disagree, I think 

It's still a mostly original composition produced specifically for the film. will.i.am wrote what he wrote for The Great Gatsby and nothing else, the song is in existence because of the film, and to me, that's enough for a song writer credit.

You have to properly credit anyone who's material you sample for a song. If a song includes one single line specifically taken from another song, the writer of that song has to be credited, it's not a matter of having enough old material to require crediting them, it's a matter of law, no matter how much is used or how old it is.

I personally would credit will.i.am and leave the others out.
The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRizor
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Merrik:
Quote:
I personally would credit will.i.am and leave the others out.

I'm leaning more towards this as well. It's very common for hip hop songs to use a few lyrics or riffs from an established song. I'd say they're still largely original songs.

For the song "Bang Bang" in particular, its essentially an original rap by will.i.am set to a beat and a remixed version of "Charleston" with a few lines from "Bang Bang (My Baby Shot Me Down)" thrown in.

And this isn't the only song on this film's soundtrack that is largely original but samples from other songs. The song "Where the Wind Blows" written by Andrea Martin for the film features a backing tune from the song "Oh, You Have No Idea" written by Dan Dougherty and Phil Ponce around 1928. Again, all 3 are credited.
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 Last edited: by Rizor
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
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They all have credits on screen.  They all contributed to the creation of something new that is original to the film.  Sure, some of the contributions are from previous creations, but the current creation would not be what it is without the contribution of the older song writer.  I would credit them all.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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The question is: is the song "original"? If we decide that it is, then all of those song writers credited for it should be entered. If not, then none of them. But I see no scenario in which we can pick and choose which writers of a single song should be entered and which of them should be left out. IMHO, it's either all of them, or none of them.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRizor
Registered: March 13, 2007
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For the time being, I've chosen not to include these two songs in my contribution to Blu-ray profile UPC 883929243815.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbigdaddyhorse
Registered: June 21, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
The question is: is the song "original"? If we decide that it is, then all of those song writers credited for it should be entered. If not, then none of them. But I see no scenario in which we can pick and choose which writers of a single song should be entered and which of them should be left out. IMHO, it's either all of them, or none of them.


I agree with this logic. Not sure if I agree the song is original, although unless Will just rapped the same lyrics the original versions had, surely he wrote something new for it. Enough to make it a different song? I could argue both sides endlessly on that. I haven't seen this film or heard the song yet FWIW, and don't plan to own it, but am sure this same issue will come up again.

Just watched the video from the link Rizor provided and am strongly leaning towards "this a new song, credit them all".
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorSpikyCactus
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Registered: July 16, 2010
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We should only count the song’s writers, not the writers of any material that’s sampled within it.  This is because the music in films is one of the things I’m especially interested in and for my own database I collect all the song writer and performer information for all the music and songs used for all the films I watch; this takes a long time to do.  However, I don’t include information relating to sampled music.  If this became acceptable online, I... would... cry...    So I’m appealing to everyone’s good nature, soul and moral compass; keep info regarding samples out of the online, because that would be nicer for me.

This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of the I’m the Centre of the Universe party.

Paul
Do you ever find yourself striving for perfection with an almost worthless attempt at it?  Guttermouth "Lemon Water".  Also, I include in my Profiler database VHS tapes, audio DVDs, audio books (digital, cassette and CD), video games (digital, DVD and CD) and 'enhanced' CDs with video tracks on them, as well as films and TV I've bought digitally.  So I'm an anarchist, deal with it.  Just be thankful I don't include most of my records and CDs etc in it too; don't think I haven't been tempted...
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributormreeder50
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Registered: March 29, 2007
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I'm with Merrik on this one. The new song should have the credit and the others did not contribute to this film.
Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbigdaddyhorse
Registered: June 21, 2007
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Having some background in music myself, I know that credit where credit is due is a huge deal. Look on the credits for nearly any rap album, and you'll find James Brown or George Clinton because beats they created decades ago are often the basis for new tracks. Those who don't give credit and get sample clearance get sued, period. Often times the credits will read something like "contains a sample of _____, written by _____". Other times it just lists em as if they were in studio working with the main artist.

So even though many may not even like what has been with their music, they all get writing credits and it doesn't matter how old the sample is, or if the original writers are live or dead. I realize this an apples to oranges situation, but I'll throw that info out anyway to help make a final decision.
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