Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Honorific rule with regards to Uncle Ray Murphy
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,736
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Eddie Murphy's uncle has three credits in the database, each under a different name variant. He's credited in:

'Beverly Hills Cop II' as Ray Murphy, Sr. (41 profiles)
'Coming to America' as Uncle Ray Murphy (40 profiles)
'Harlem Nights' as Uncle Ray (14 profiles)

Determining the common name is tricky - it seems we only have the number of profiles to act as a tiebreaker, but even that is extremely close together and may shift any minute. Right now, it would seem that Ray Murphy, Sr. is the common name.

Now, someone has a contribution up for the US Blu-ray profile of 'Coming to America', turning his credit into "Ray Murphy [Uncle Ray Murphy]". The notes say:

Quote:
Corrected cast name for honorific rule (Eddie Murphy's uncle, so they added the Uncle to his credit)

Four "yes"-votes, so far. Does "Uncle" really fit the honorific rule, here? And if you say "yes it does", then how would I apply the "Ray Murphy" common name to the profiles for his other two credits, knowing that he was never ever credited as "Ray Murphy"?
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorLeiterfluid
*GASP* The Liberry!
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 278
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Yes, Uncle fits the honorific rule. Unless his first name is indeed Uncle, it doesn't belong in the first name field.

Therefore, you have three choices.

1) Ray//Murphy, Sr.
2) Ray//Murphy [Uncle Ray Murphy]
3) Uncle Ray//

#3 is a stage name, and should probably be given less weight than the others.
Unless there's evidence that a Ray Murphy, Jr. has ever been credited, I would want to give preference to #2.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,736
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Leiterfluid:
Quote:
#3 is a stage name

And #2 is not? The honoric rule is this:

Quote:
Military rank/affiliation or other honorifics should be included in the 'Credited As' field. Example: a credit of "Cpl. John Smith, USMC" should be entered as First Name: "John", Last Name "Smith", Credited As "Cpl. John Smith, USMC"

When I read this, I didn't immediately think of "Uncle". I went to look for previous threads discussing honorifics, and there it was argued that honorifics "are bestowed by a recognised body of one form or another, University, medical council, army etc..." That's clearly not the case here. Instead, both #2 and #3 look like stage names to me.

Either way, though, I'd still prefer to go with the name variant that is actually the most "common" in our database: Ray Murphy, Sr.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Seems to me it should be...

Ray Murphy, Sr. [Uncle Ray Murphy]

Because either way going by the numbers you gave Ray Murphy, Sr. is the common name.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,852
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I don't know why, but when I see this subject line I keep reading it as "Horrific rule".

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
The rule on honorifics says...

Quote:
Military rank/affiliation or other honorifics should be included in the 'Credited As' field. Example: a credit of "Cpl. John Smith, USMC" should be entered as First Name: "John", Last Name "Smith", Credited As "Cpl. John Smith, USMC"


Nothing there to say that we don't still need to use the correct common name.

So the only way I would contribute... and only way I would vote yes for is...

Ray Murphy, Sr. [Uncle Ray Murphy]
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorLeiterfluid
*GASP* The Liberry!
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 278
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I think that T!M's point, though, was that the new contribution for the BD release of Coming to America was that it would make the Uncle Ray Murphy credit number 41, so it would put it on par with the Ray Murphy, Sr. credit, nullifying the "common name argument" for either entry.
 Last edited: by Leiterfluid
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
No... he said the contribution was..

Quote:
Now, someone has a contribution up for the US Blu-ray profile of 'Coming to America', turning his credit into "Ray Murphy [Uncle Ray Murphy]". The notes say:


So that would make a new base name of Ray Murphy (not in the above list at all).... so it would not change the common name.
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorLeiterfluid
*GASP* The Liberry!
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 278
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Yeah, but the other 40 are all incorrect. 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
T!M can correct me if I am wrong.... but going by the OP I don't think it is a new addition to the 40... just that one of them being changed to honorific rule. Which would mean there is still just the 40 vs. the 41 Ray Murphy, Sr. so  Ray Murphy, Sr. would still be the common name.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,736
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
T!M can correct me if I am wrong.... but going by the OP I don't think it is a new addition to the 40... just that one of them being changed to honorific rule. Which would mean there is still just the 40 vs. the 41 Ray Murphy, Sr. so  Ray Murphy, Sr. would still be the common name.

You're right. But they're close together: as soon as one or two more profiles turn op, the balance may shift. Therefore, I'd still like an answer to the question whether "Uncle" would fall under the rule on honorifics. Again, it doesn't apply now, as Ray Murphy, Sr. is the common name, but what if two more 'Coming to America' profiles surface?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
If/when that occurs... yes I would definitely consider Uncle an honorific.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRizor
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 554
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
I personally don't consider "Uncle" an honorific. I consider it a stage name.
My DVD/Blu-ray Collection
My Letterboxd Page
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 3,475
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I don't consider "Uncle" an honorific either.

One needs to do something to earn that honor and that is not the case here.

In these cases the siblings did all the "work". 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 17,334
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
from Oxforddictionaries.com
Quote:
honorific
Syllabification: (hon·or·if·ic)
Pronunciation: /?än?'rifik/
Translate honorific | into Italian
adjective

    (of an office or position) given as a mark of respect, but having few or no duties.
    denoting a form of address showing high status, politeness, or respect:an honorific title for addressing women

noun

  a title or word implying or expressing high status, politeness, or respect:he will be able to put the honorific after his name: licenciado, “college graduate.”


I would say Uncle definitely fits well into the definition I put in bold.
Pete
 Last edited: by Addicted2DVD
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 3,475
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:

...he will be able to put the honorific after his name: licenciado, “college graduate.”


Then we should enter his name as Ray Murphy, Sr. Uncle!?! 
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next