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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't like it when cast and crew is copied from one profile to another. When it comes to new profiles I accept it, even though I would prefer that the contributor actually checked the credits.
Recently I have seen a bunch of contributions that replace existing cast and crew with cast and crew from another profile. It seems to be primarily in order to introduce group dividers into the crew. While I dislike crew group dividers, I accept them.
However, at the same time these contributions often make other changes, like changing or removing crew credits, changing or adding common names. All this is done without any explanation, and that bothers me. I'm sure this is done in good faith, but the fact that the new data has group dividers does not guarantee that it is more correct than the old data in other aspects.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | I do it, but...
I try to check upfront:
- who maintains the source profile
- is the source in danger of being IMDb mined
- is it a real improvement
- are the major issues of the existing profiles corrected
- does the new cast crew list pass a quck check against the credits
- ...
Also I try to compare the existing profiles. This reveals quite quickly, how accurately the profiles are maintained and leads to minor corrections, which have to be made after copying: BYs, Cross links, ...
Used responsibly it is a good but not perfect way to improve profiles, but as any other method it is not free of caveats. | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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| Registered: October 4, 2008 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 330 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
I don't like it when cast and crew is copied from one profile to another. When it comes to new profiles I accept it, even though I would prefer that the contributor actually checked the credits.
Recently I have seen a bunch of contributions that replace existing cast and crew with cast and crew from another profile. It seems to be primarily in order to introduce group dividers into the crew. While I dislike crew group dividers, I accept them.
However, at the same time these contributions often make other changes, like changing or removing crew credits, changing or adding common names. All this is done without any explanation, and that bothers me. I'm sure this is done in good faith, but the fact that the new data has group dividers does not guarantee that it is more correct than the old data in other aspects.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? I agree with this, especially when there are no notes. Who's to say which profile is correct without some verification? To me it's just lazy contributing; there should be documentation on the changes being made. |
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| Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | This issue has been discussed for at least 7 years. My thoughts haven't changed since then. http://www.invelos.com/MessagePost.aspx?task=replyquote&TopicID=557085&MessageID=1606154 Quoting Kathy: Quote:
Ken and invelos allow for data to be cloned from one profile in the database to another.
Invelos has even made this feature easy by letting one copy, past and append directly on the Cast and Crew Edit page.
I frequently use this feature as it saves a lot of time and typing. It has also been my experience that in the vast majority of cases, the credits are exactly the same when I double check the cloned data with the actual credits.
In the rare case that there are a few differences, these can be fixed by the community when it gets to it. Ken even allows for a few mistakes if the majority of a profile is correct.
There are a couple of things I do when I clone a profile.
I always check the contribution notes to see where the data I am cloning was taken from and I document this information.
I also include the UPC or EAN numbers of the cloned profile so that the community can check that profile.
So, my notes would be something like "Cast and Crew copied from the same film in the invelos database UPC 000000-000000. Documentation notes this data came directly from the DVD credits."
I often update several dozen DVDs at a time adding/correcting data as needed. When I do these updates I am not going to take the time to go through all the credits unless I actually watch the movie.
Once I do get to seeing the movie, I do double check all the data for that DVD. Because, of course, the best source of data is the DVD itself. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | Let me be more specific.
One of these contribution removes two costume designers. If this change was done "manually" I would have expected an explanation as to why they should not be credited. Here I get nothing, just "cast and crew copied from ...".
Another contribution changes Ian Flemings credit on For Your Eyes Only from OCB to OMB. Again, if this was done "manually" I would have expected a reason for the change. Here I get none.
I am not saying that either of these changes necessarily are wrong. I just feel that exchanging one approved profile's cast and crew from another approved profile's without explanation feels wrong to me. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,749 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Let me be more specific...
I agree with what Gunnar said. I also have copied from one to another, but then always check against the disc credits. I should also mention, when I copy it is almost always from the child or parent I just completely audited and then checked against the disc credits. | | | | Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002. | | | | Last edited: by mreeder50 |
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| Registered: February 8, 2011 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,220 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have no problem with copying cast/crew from other profiles. However I do check the changes and if correct cast/crew, common names or birth years are removed I vote no. |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
I don't like it when cast and crew is copied from one profile to another. I completely agree. --------------- |
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| Registered: October 4, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 330 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gamemaster: Quote:
I have no problem with copying cast/crew from other profiles. However I do check the changes and if correct cast/crew, common names or birth years are removed I vote no. That is great that you do that, but it should be the responsibility of the person contributing to verify these things, not the person voting. You shouldn't have to do the research. Again, lazy contributing IMHO. |
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| Registered: June 20, 2007 |  Posts: 85 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mreeder50: Quote:
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Let me be more specific...
I agree with what Gunnar said. I also have copied from one to another, but then always check against the disc credits. If checking the credits would always that easy. I have some asian movies where the endcredits are not translated and so help from third party sources is needed...and google translate (or similar software......even if i found nothing better then the live translations of pictures yet for that.......if someone knows a good one which may work on a pc as well...). Recently there was one contribution for such a profile (i did some work on it locally too...early this year....but as i still not be able to find out if a bunch of credits are actual extras/actors or not have not contributed that stuff) which clearly was just copied from another profile as it still had one of the englisch voice actors listed in it.....apparently it just did not get approved just mentioning that at the vote |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | For me it's a matter of simple principles:
1) Don't make changes to an existing profile unless you are reasonably certain that they are correct.
2) Document the reason for the changes.
This should apply regardless of if you make these changes alone, or if you copy data wholesale from another profile. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Agreed. I have no problem with cloning other profiles provided they result in significant improvement and the contributor documents the changes beyond something like "this came from profile such-and-so". The example Gunnar mentioned leaves you, as a voter, guessing why certain changes are part of the contribution, and that's not how it should be. |
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