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| Registered: January 16, 2010 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,617 |
| | Posted: | | | |  Music by is clearly a valid entry for a composing credit. Under notes for this credit the contribution rules state: Used for the composer of the film's Original ScoreCole Porter died in 1964, the screenshot above is from the film Evil under the Sun from 1981, so Cole Porter hardly can be responsible for an Original Score. His already existing music was newly arranged by John Lanchbery and used for this film. So who gets a composing credit? | | | Think different
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | By that data, it appears that Cole Porter wrote the music, hence he should get the credit. It makes little difference if he was alive when the film was produced, it still used the music he wrote.
The rules do not mention Arranged By or Conducted By so John Lanchbery should not be credited. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote:
By that data, it appears that Cole Porter wrote the music, hence he should get the credit. I tend to agree with this, though one does wonder what the term "Original Score" in the crew table's notes field is intended to mean. Quote:
Used for the composer of the film's Original Score --------------- |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,684 |
| | Posted: | | | | I interpret Original Score similarly to Original Song, i.e. written specifically for the film. I realize that there is a difference in that it is spelled out that Original Song means specifically for rhe film, while this is not spelled out for Original Score. I think the reason Ken chose to spell it out for songs may be that non-original songs are so much more prevalent than non-original score. But that's just my guess. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with Gunnar on this. I don't think we should e.g. enter a Composer credit for Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart for the film "Amadeus". I'd say: if it wasn't written for the film, it does not get a credit (irrespective of whether the composer has died before the film was actually produced or not). |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | I strongly disagree on this original idea: keep in mind the the musical genre... and even remakes sometimes use the music originally written for the original film.
I assume, Ken introduced this differentiation for songs, to prevent masses of song credits from sneaking in. As so often, the easiest solution comes short: now we have discussion over discussion what to list and no format, how to enter it...
It would have been better to think a little more about it, and either set up a structure to list song credits correctly (title (!!), composer, texter, producer, performer, originally written for, ...) or omit them at all. Listing one song writer - nobody knows what he did - for some songs is a really bad compromise. | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) | | | | Last edited: by AiAustria |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,684 |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
I'll happily change my opinion if someone can satisfactorily explain the difference between "Original Score" and just "Score".  Not to worry: no one can. |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
I'll happily change my opinion if someone can satisfactorily explain the difference between "Original Score" and just "Score".
Not to worry: no one can. At least seven no-valid-credit-at-all voters seem to be able to  | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
I'll happily change my opinion if someone can satisfactorily explain the difference between "Original Score" and just "Score". Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thougt you already explained it. A film's original score is the music written specifically for that film, meaning it is original. A score is just music used for a film, not necessarily written for it, so not original....or did I miss the point of your first post? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
I agree with Gunnar on this. I don't think we should e.g. enter a Composer credit for Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart for the film "Amadeus". I'd say: if it wasn't written for the film, it does not get a credit (irrespective of whether the composer has died before the film was actually produced or not). What about screenplays? If a screenwriter wrote a script that later got made into a move based on his script he shouldn't be credited for it? Or if someone wrote original music that was not intended to be in a movie, but was later used as a score. They shouldn't be credited? Quoting AiAustria: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
I'll happily change my opinion if someone can satisfactorily explain the difference between "Original Score" and just "Score".
Not to worry: no one can.
At least seven no-valid-credit-at-all voters seem to be able to So you are suggesting some other knowledge base should determine if a score is "Original" or not? I guess I don't understand the reasoning behind "original", I assume it's like it was said before the intention was to keep songs out of the conversation. Isn't the point of the credit to see who wrote the music for a movie? | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,684 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
I'll happily change my opinion if someone can satisfactorily explain the difference between "Original Score" and just "Score".
Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thougt you already explained it. A film's original score is the music written specifically for that film, meaning it is original. A score is just music used for a film, not necessarily written for it, so not original....or did I miss the point of your first post? Well, I guess I could have put that better. What I really wanted was for someone from the "yes" camp to explain what they think the reason is that it says "Original Score" rather than just "Score". It seems to me that they equate the two. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
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| Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote:
Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
I agree with Gunnar on this. I don't think we should e.g. enter a Composer credit for Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart for the film "Amadeus". I'd say: if it wasn't written for the film, it does not get a credit (irrespective of whether the composer has died before the film was actually produced or not).
What about screenplays? If a screenwriter wrote a script that later got made into a move based on his script he shouldn't be credited for it? Or if someone wrote original music that was not intended to be in a movie, but was later used as a score. They shouldn't be credited? Screenplays are irrelevant for this discussion. Regarding your second question (original music that was not intended to be in a movie, but was later used as a score): yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. Refer to the example I provided (Amadeus). |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Well, I guess I could have put that better. What I really wanted was for someone from the "yes" camp to explain what they think the reason is that it says "Original Score" rather than just "Score". It seems to me that they equate the two. No worries. I just wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting dee1959jay: Quote:
Quoting DoubleDownAgain:
Quote:
Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
I agree with Gunnar on this. I don't think we should e.g. enter a Composer credit for Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart for the film "Amadeus". I'd say: if it wasn't written for the film, it does not get a credit (irrespective of whether the composer has died before the film was actually produced or not).
What about screenplays? If a screenwriter wrote a script that later got made into a move based on his script he shouldn't be credited for it? Or if someone wrote original music that was not intended to be in a movie, but was later used as a score. They shouldn't be credited?
Screenplays are irrelevant for this discussion.  Because you say so? I am not trying to apply any rules towards writing credits to Music credits. My point was that it doesn't matter when it was written. It has the proper credits, and there is no evidence from the credits that it isn't 'Original'. Quote:
Quoting dee1959jay:Regarding your second question (original music that was not intended to be in a movie, but was later used as a score): yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. Refer to the example I provided (Amadeus). Amadeus is irrelevant for this discussion. Mozart was never credited in the film, so it has nothing in common with your original question, two different examples. Even if you are correct in using "Original" from the notes, and it means what you think it means, the onus would be on your to provide documentation to prove that the music used for the score wasn't original. From just viewing the credits, you have to take them at face value. AiAustria nailed it. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote:
Amadeus is irrelevant for this discussion. Mozart was never credited in the film, so it has nothing in common with your original question Let's do an example that is relevant, then. George Gershwin is given the "Music By" credit in Woody Allen's 'Manhattan'. Since George Gershwin died in 1937, it's pretty obvious that we're not talking about an original score. Now let's have a look in the database: 8 'Manhattan' profiles list him as "Composer", while 30 'Manhattan' profiles don't include him. As is so often the case, the actual situation in the database is quite different than what these poll results might suggest. Another Woody Allen example: his film 'Love and Death' credits S. Prokofiev (died in 1953 so, again, not original) with "Music By". Guess what? Only one 'Love and Death' profile (locality: New Zealand) lists him as such. The other twenty 'Love and Death' profiles leave him out. To me, that's a better indication of how the community deals with this, as opposed to this forum poll. |
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