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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Want to find common names? Don't use the Credit Lookup Tool |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Wrong. The CLT tracks the Credited As, so that data must be consistent. What will break it is some entering the data one way and some another. François Credited As Francois is what works. Now we MIGHT end up with TWO database entries because I presume that WILL be films that actually do reflect François ON SCREEN.
Let's try again. For new 50 films we see on screen 'FRANCOIS LEFAVRE'. Skip says enter this as NAME = François Lefavre; Credited As = Francois Lefavre In addition lets say there are already 10 films that have him on screen as 'François Lefavre'. No other instances exist in the database. Using the CLT we will find 50 instances of 'Francois Lefavre' and 10 instances of 'François Lefavre', THEREFORE, we CANNOT use 'François Lefavre' as the NAME (alias) as Skip suggests to "satisfy" the French community. The NAME must be 'Francois Lefavre'. Can you not see the huge flaw in your logic Skip? | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | North:
You are ignoring what Ken and Gerri have said
Ken and Gerri have told us that if we can document a "Common Name" is not correct then we can change it accordingly...with the documentation...not just because.
Now because of this, I'll pci what I presume woul;d be an easy one to document.
FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT=Francois Truffaut
But with documenattion to back up François Truffaut as the Alias (Common Name) I would support the Common name based on what ken and gerri have told us, and iwould expect everyone else to as well.
But i would not support
FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT=François Truffaut
I woulld support
FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT=François Truffaut Credited As Francois Truiffaut
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Schizzzo:
Ken and Gerri have told us that if we can document a "Common Name" is not correct then we can change it accordingly...with the documentation...not just because. You left out one important little bit here. They also said to correct the database (Credited As) so that the CLT will reflect the correct "Common Name".. The only way to do that is to use 'François' as the "Credited As' name! When they talk about documenting that the CLT is 'wrong', they mean that the existing "Credited As" data has been entered incorrectly, e.g., from IMDB. In this case the data is wrong because you are insisting that "Credited As" data be entered wrong (Francois). Your argument is non-sensical. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Ken and Gerri have told us that if we can document a "Common Name" is not correct then we can change it accordingly...with the documentation...not just because. You keep saying this... If I understand correctly, you're implying we're after "correct", thus "real" names to use as common names? While that would certainly be welcome in a number of situations, I really don't remember Ken and/or Gerri ever telling us something like that - instead, we've been told to use the most-credited form of a name only. So... Would you please provide a link to where Ken and/or Gerri stated this? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Schizzzo:
Ken and Gerri have told us that if we can document a "Common Name" is not correct then we can change it accordingly...with the documentation...not just because.
You left out one important little bit here. They also said to correct the database (Credited As) so that the CLT will reflect the correct "Common Name"..
The only way to do that is to use 'François' as the "Credited As' name!
When they talk about documenting that the CLT is 'wrong', they mean that the existing "Credited As" data has been entered incorrectly, e.g., from IMDB. In this case the data is wrong because you are insisting that "Credited As" data be entered wrong (Francois).
Your argument is non-sensical. No hal, your is the nonsensical argument. You are encouraging anarchy and a mess.I am trying to get everyone on one page. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Ken and Gerri have told us that if we can document a "Common Name" is not correct then we can change it accordingly...with the documentation...not just because.
You keep saying this... If I understand correctly, you're implying we're after "correct", thus "real" names to use as common names? While that would certainly be welcome in a number of situations, I really don't remember Ken and/or Gerri ever telling us something like that - instead, we've been told to use the most-credited form of a name only.
So... Would you please provide a link to where Ken and/or Gerri stated this? Tim: You jumped into the middle of this and i refuse to deal with you. You can';t even provide adequate documentation relative to common Names. You like to assume that two names are the same person. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
You jumped into the middle of this and i refuse to deal with you. That indeed seems like the best way if you don't actually HAVE an answer. Quote:
You can';t even provide adequate documentation relative to common Names. Red herring! I asked an honest question; you start with unrelated accusations. Quote:
You like to assume that two names are the same person. Likewise, I could say that you're a bit overzealous in assuming every typo in a credited name means it's a different actor. It's a bit like "innocent until proven guilty" versus "guilty until proven innocent". But again, this that has absolulutely NOTHING to do with the issue at hand. I asked you a serious question, and I'll repeat it once more below. If you don't have an answer, or if you don't want to answer, please just don't reply at all. Again, what you seem to be saying is that if you could find some source to document that his REAL name is "François", you would accept "François Truffaut, credited as Francois Truffaut", even though the credit lookup tool wouldn't support that as the most-credited name variant. Have I understood that correctly? If so, I'd really like to see where Ken and/or Gerri said that we could do this. If this was not what you meant, than I'll shut up about it immediately. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
North:
You are ignoring what Ken and Gerri have said
Ken and Gerri have told us that if we can document a "Common Name" is not correct then we can change it accordingly...with the documentation...not just because. Yes, that is what they said, but you are twisting it's meaning to support your position. They were talking about a situation where the CLT is giving a false common name because the wrong name was entered into the 'credited as' field. Ken has stated, quite clearly I might add, that the 'common name' is supposed to reflect the most credited form of the name. Nothing more, nothing less. Niow, I expect you will ignore this just as you have every one of my other posts...I guess you are playing some kind of game.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,916 |
| | Posted: | | | | Is it just me or doesn't the previous post say the same thing from both sides? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr. Killpatient: Quote:
Is it just me or doesn't the previous post say the same thing from both sides? It's just you!  Skip is arguing that he can override the CLT and use 'François' in the "Common Name" field in order to satisfy the cultural sensibilities of the French. At the same time he is insisting that 'FRANCOIS' must be entered as 'Francois' in the "Credited As" field. If we do as Skip suggests, then using the CLT will obviously produce a result of 'Francois' as the most common "Credited As" name, and should be used as the "Common Name" as well. Skip then goes on to say that we can override the CLT result ('Francois') because he can "document" that the proper form is 'François'. Problem is that Ken has said that the CLT can be ignored only if we can prove that the CLT result is based on erroneous entries in the "Credited As" fields in the on-line database (like IMDb data). In this case, Skip is saying that we must put 'Francois' in the 'Credited As' field because that is the correct transposition of 'FRANCOIS', but then turns around and says after we do that we can ignore the results of the CLT (which will produce 'Francois' as the most common occurence) because he can document that 'François' is correct. If it was correct to put it in as 'Francois', how can it be incorrect when we get 'Francois' as the result of the CLT? Like I said earlier, Skip's argument makes absolutely no sense! | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,595 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Problem is that Ken has said that the CLT can be ignored only if we can prove that the CLT result is based on erroneous entries in the "Credited As" fields in the on-line database (like IMDb data). Here are the two instances where Ken commented regarding the CLT: Remember that the credit lookup tool does not look at the credit entry's name, it looks only at the "Credited As" field, if one is entered. Therefore, using the lookup tool can't propagate errors.The lookup tool is not to be blindly trusted, however it does outweigh other sources, including autographs. The common name is not intended to always reflect the "real name", but the most commonly credited name. However, if a user documents errors in the database where the credit is not entered properly, that can and should be considered. Better yet, correct the entries, assuming you own the discs in question, thereby correcting the lookup results. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Schizzzo:
Ken and Gerri have told us that if we can document a "Common Name" is not correct then we can change it accordingly...with the documentation...not just because.
You left out one important little bit here. They also said to correct the database (Credited As) so that the CLT will reflect the correct "Common Name"..
The only way to do that is to use 'François' as the "Credited As' name!
When they talk about documenting that the CLT is 'wrong', they mean that the existing "Credited As" data has been entered incorrectly, e.g., from IMDB. In this case the data is wrong because you are insisting that "Credited As" data be entered wrong (Francois).
Your argument is non-sensical. Just so. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Dr. Killpatient:
Quote:
Is it just me or doesn't the previous post say the same thing from both sides?
It's just you!
Skip is arguing that he can override the CLT and use 'François' in the "Common Name" field in order to satisfy the cultural sensibilities of the French. At the same time he is insisting that 'FRANCOIS' must be entered as 'Francois' in the "Credited As" field.
If we do as Skip suggests, then using the CLT will obviously produce a result of 'Francois' as the most common "Credited As" name, and should be used as the "Common Name" as well.
Skip then goes on to say that we can override the CLT result ('Francois') because he can "document" that the proper form is 'François'.
Problem is that Ken has said that the CLT can be ignored only if we can prove that the CLT result is based on erroneous entries in the "Credited As" fields in the on-line database (like IMDb data).
In this case, Skip is saying that we must put 'Francois' in the 'Credited As' field because that is the correct transposition of 'FRANCOIS', but then turns around and says after we do that we can ignore the results of the CLT (which will produce 'Francois' as the most common occurence) because he can document that 'François' is correct.
If it was correct to put it in as 'Francois', how can it be incorrect when we get 'Francois' as the result of the CLT?
Like I said earlier, Skip's argument makes absolutely no sense! One more time, Hal it is you who make absolutely no sense. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,916 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yeah, I have to agree that my mind is spinning on this one and I'm going to bow out and leave this thread alone. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | That's why I've given up on this thread, doc. There is no rationality here.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
There is no rationality here. There is, actually. You've just managed to derail it with some strange argument that you seem to have fabricated out of thin air. All myself and a few others are trying to do, is to show that we can NOT use "François" as a common name if that's not in any way supported by the "credit lookup" tool results (even taking into account a few yet-to-be-corrected wrong entries). You were actually presenting this as the solution to the whole Francois vs. François debate - or at least that was the impression you gave - but you were wrong, so someone had to set you straight. Call that "there is no rationality here" if you want to - it was just necessary to point out that you were wrong. Now back to our regular schedule: presumably another dozen pages of bickering about how to enter an on-screen credit of FRANCOIS. That's something I won't participate in, 'cause it's no use - only Ken can end that one. Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
That's why I've given up on this thread, doc. Not to worry: I have a feeling that there'll be a new one just like it very soon. And then another one. And another one. And then some more...  | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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