And let's not forget

Charles Honi Coles - 3 titles (23 profiles)

All are Dirty Dancing and while i need to double check my discs all, i think, need fixed.

I agree with 8Ball, remember Unicus. That 'Honi' is already used by somebody, this is another formatting issue, but let's try to steer clear of  possible issues.

In point of fact I thought this was resolved LONG ago.

Skip

While we're on the subject: what are we using as "common name" for him? He seems to be credited once as Charles Honi Coles ('Dirty Dancing'), once as Charles "Honi" Coles ('The Cotton Club') and once as Charles Coles ('Rocky II') - there don't seem to be any other credits for him in the database. So with three different name variants in three different films - what do we use as "common name"?     

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
Which brings me back to how much some areas and people have screwed us up by not following the Rules, I haven't looked but I am willing to bet we would also find 'Honi' listed (IMDb).

Oh yes, of course, and by far the most of all variants, while he's never ever really credited as such. Mind you: this is the point where some users tend to come in and say: "well, you're saying that, but I cannot go by your feeling, and I'll stick with the CLT results". Well, good luck to them: be my guest and go ahead and use Charles 'Honi' Coles as common name - even though he's never actually credited as such. Sometimes I think I'm the only one with an accurate database...

The numbers: out of 101 profiles for 'Dirty Dancing', 'Rocky II' and 'The Cotton Club' combined, a staggering 59 use the incorrect IMDb-name. That's almost 60% - and then you need to realize that 'Dirty Dancing' and 'Rocky II' are pretty "mainstream" profiles that are reasonably widely-owned and as such, reasonably well-updated. The situation is a lot worse for titles that are less "mainstream". And if you're thinking these must all be profiles in the the more exotic, "smaller" localities, then you can guess again - there are even several U.S. R1 profiles among them.

But hey: don't take my word for it, and use the never-credited IMDb-name as "common name" if you really insist. I certainly wouldn't want to force my "feeling" upon anyone else...     

Quoting kdh1949:

Quote:
Wait a minute, guys.  In another thread someone (Skip) says we have to show what's on the screen to be accurate.  So if the credit is Robert Downey Jr.  we can't show it as Robert Downey, Jr..  Why is it alright in this case to

Quote:
use double quotes for nicknames as IMDb uses single quotes.

if the onscreen credit uses single quotes?  (I don't remember seeing a cast list with single quotes, but I don't think it's out of the question) -- but it sounds like you guys are saying that we should ALWAYS use double quotes so we don't resemble IMDB format.  If it's a single quote on screen shouldn't we use a single quote to reflect accurate data?  

Or am I off on a wrong tangent?  

I agree - I'm suprised to see this as well... Sure, we used to devise a lot of standards a long time ago, but nearly all of those have been torn down again - fortunately in some cases, and (very) unfortunately in others. As I understand the current situation, we're indeed to enter what we see on-screen - at least in the "credited as" field, that is. If I'm really wrong on this, I'd love to hear it - then I've been doing it wrong for quite some time. The point is, however, that for these people who are sometimes credited without a nickname and sometimes with it, and then also using slightly different ways of doing that, the need to use the "credited as" field is quite common, like it is here, obviously.

IMHO, the discussion about Mr. Coles shouldn't be about how to format his nickname, but it should be about what to use as his "common name". I believe what's seen on-screen should be copied exactly into DVD Profiler, but for two out of these three different credits, it belongs in the "credited as" field. So it seems to me that the problem noted as the subject of this thread is actually non-existent, while the actual problem is being ignored... 

With three name variants in three titles I fear it won't be easy to reach a compromise for what to use as his "common name", but let me be the first to put in my suggestion: let's simply use "Charles Coles" (from the 'Rocky II' credit). It's the simplest of all - no dealing with any form of the nickname in the name field. For 'Dirty Dancing' and 'The Cotton Club' you would use "credited as" indicating exactly how it appears in the credits. How's that? Of course there will be people that only own 'Dirty Dancing', and there will be people that only own 'The Cotton Club', and there will be people who only own 'Rocky II' - each of them will tend to use that particular variant as his "common name", but if we ever want to reach an accurate database, we're going to have to look a bit further than just our own needs - hence the need to establish a common name. "Common" means for all of us - not just for those only owning the same titles as yourself. Anyway - I'd suggest using "Charles Coles", but trust me: at this point, I really don't have the illusion that we'll be able to reach an easy consensus anymore... I'll just have to be content in that I gave it a shot.

Quoting 8ballMax:

Quote:
This has been discussed before, though I can't find the thread right now, and the consensus, to the best of my knowledge, was to use double quotes for nicknames as IMDb uses single quotes.

Charles "Honi" Coles
(...)

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
I agree with 8Ball, remember Unicus. That 'Honi' is already used by somebody, this is another formatting issue, but let's try to steer clear of  possible issues.
(...)

Wait, wait, wait...what do we care what IMDb does?  Our standard is the film credits.  If the film credits use single quotes, so do we.  If the film credits use double quotes, so do we.  If the film credits use parenthesis, so do we.

What happend to 'following the rules'?  The rule in this case is quite clear...

For any film with standard credits, take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.

I see nothing in there to support the 'standard' you two have mentioned.  We do not deviate from the actual film credits.  Not for accented letters, not to add a comma before Jr. and not to deviate from what IMDb does.

Do you know how many credits we would have to change if being different than IMDb was our goal?

Can't use John Wayne, as that is the name IMDb uses.
Can't use Tom Cruise, as that is the name IMDb uses.
Can't use Kirk Douglas, as that is the name IMDb uses.
Can't use Martin Sheen, as that is the name IMDb uses.

We have a standard.  That standard is the film credits.  If IMDb happens to use a standard that can be found in the films credits, oh well.  That doesn't change our standard.

I would hope that, someone would check the other credits for the other profiles to make sure that the data is correct before making a common name that may not really be common.

It does seem that the problem really isn't about Nicknames and double vs single quotes in this case but what to use as common name. But just so you know that I wasn't dreaming about the consensus on the use of double quotes for nicknames in the middle name field:

Discussion on Credited As Field Part 2