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| Registered: May 11, 2007 |  Posts: 249 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hello all,
In my collection are a number of DVDs featuring actress Caroline Lee Johnson.
The DVDs of Chef! where she is currently entered as Caroline//Lee//Johnson and one of the box sets of Waking the Dead where she is entered as Caroline//Lee Johnson.
I've looked in the credit tool and find that she is mostly entered in profiles in the first way (Caroline//Lee//Johnson), but I'm still wondering which way is correct (and how to prove it).
I would have thought myself that Lee is part of her surname as she is sometimes credited as Caroline//Lee-Johnson, but apparently many do not agree.
Any help would be appreciated. |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'll dissect the CLT results for you - I guess it's a new hobby of mine: 49x Caroline Lee Johnson: three series (or "seasons", for our American friends) of 'Chef!', 'Absolute Power', 'The Defender', 'The Funny Blokes of British Comedy', 'The Saint' (the 1997 film remake, not the original 60s TV show), 'The Uninvited', 'Waking the Dead' and 'The Whistleblowers'. 5x Caroline Lee-Johnson, including one incorrect 'The Saint' entry and two incorrect 'The Defender' profiles - probably all mined from IMDb who use the hyphened format as her common name. These three should be corrected to the other name variant. That leaves us with just two entries, 'The Knock' and 'A Woman's Guide to Adultery'. I don't own those, but I noticed that both the front and the back cover of 'The Knock' list her WITHOUT the hyphen. Assuming the cover got it right, we have only one alledged "Caroline Lee-Johnson" credit left, in 'A Woman's Guide to Adultery', and theoretically, that one could have been lifted from IMDb as well. All in all, I'm not even completely convinced that there is even one single "Caroline Lee-Johnson" credit out there. If 'A Woman's Guide to Adultery' is accurate, there's ONE, but it could well be absolutely zero. As for parsing: unfortunately Invelos seems to have adopted the "first one in wins" principle here: we have no standards at all. It seems that most of those 49 credits have been entered as Caroline/Lee/Johnson - if you can make a solid case for another way of parsing, I suggest you present it here first, and then have a look how the community feels about it. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,594 |
| | Posted: | | | | There's not much on the net about her. She is credited both with and without the hypen. Since a hyphen is used in some of her credits, IMO this would suggest that her maiden name is lee and married name is Johnson thus resulting in Caroline / / Lee Johnson. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
She is credited both with and without the hypen. Are you sure? Again, the CLT shows only two profiles with the hyphen, and I'm still not entirely convinced that these two entries are accurate. I don't own 'The Knock', but I noticed that both the front and the back cover list her WITHOUT the hyphen. That leaves us with just one alledged credit, in 'A Woman's Guide to Adultery'. I really can't find any data on that, but it could be lifted from IMDb as well. Quote:
this would suggest that her maiden name is lee and married name is Johnson thus resulting in Caroline / / Lee Johnson. Let me get this straight: do we have a clear consensus that maiden names go into the last name field? I strongly agree, but I didn't realize we had such a consensus yet. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Without evidence to the contrary, C/L/J, no guessing. Use of a hyphen in another show is NOT evidence, people have the ability to change the way they parse their name all the time. It is evidence but not conclusive, would like to see something more concrete than she was credited this way in this film so...
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Let me get this straight: do we have a clear consensus that maiden names go into the last name field? I strongly agree, but I didn't realize we had such a consensus yet. There is no such consensus. | | | | Hal |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
There is no such consensus. It seemed to good to be true, but since 8ballMax said as much, I thought I'd ask. Ah well, then we're gonna be stuck with non-linking multiple entries for thousands of people for years to come. Ken, if you're reading this: DO SOMETHING TO FIX THE PARSING PROBLEMS! I don't care what you do, or how you do it, but this needs addressing. We cannot build towards an accurate cast and crew database if we remain stuck with multiple entries for literally EACH name that consists of more than two parts (note that years after it was settled, there are STILL multiple entries for Helena Bonham Carter in the database - I just got another one of them fixed in today's batch of approved contributions). | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,594 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
There is no such consensus.
It seemed to good to be true, but since 8ballMax said as much, I thought I'd ask. Ah well, then we're gonna be stuck with non-linking multiple entries for thousands of people for years to come. Ken, if you're reading this: DO SOMETHING TO FIX THE PARSING PROBLEMS! I don't care what you do, or how you do it, but this needs addressing. We cannot build towards an accurate cast and crew database if we remain stuck with multiple entries for literally EACH name that consists of more than two parts (note that years after it was settled, there are STILL multiple entries for Helena Bonham Carter in the database - I just got another one of them fixed in last night's batch of approved contributions). I said IMO...I did not state this was a consensous. | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
I said IMO...I did not state this was a consensous. I just asked, since you put it so matter-of-factly ("thus resulting in Caroline / / Lee Johnson"), and since I've been hoping for such a standard for so long. I happen to agree with that approach: IMHO a "maiden name" does not qualify as a "middle name". A simple statement from Ken that maiden names should always be entered in the last name field would be a start towards solving the current parsing mess in the database. Sure, it would still leave us with the burden of having to prove whether it's a maiden name or not, but it would be a start. Having such a standard would enable me to fix (and thus: properly link together) literally hundreds of differently parsed actress names. But as it stands, those multiple entries for the same people won't link together for some time to come. Except in my local database, of course.  |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,594 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
But as it stands, those multiple entries for the same people won't link together for some time to come. Except in my local database, of course. But that's all that really matters isn't it? To hell with the rest of em  . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,311 |
| | Posted: | | | | Except there is times when a maiden name is the middle name... as there is a practice where many women (including women I have known personally) would completely drop their middle name when marrying... and moving their maiden name to their middle name. Legally changing their names... so the middle name is her maiden name. So I personally don't see such a standard being a smart idea. | | | | Pete |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
So I personally don't see such a standard being a smart idea. As usual, people will have difficulty in letting go of "outside world" definitions while it should be about how we handle things "purely for DVD Profiler purposes" - that's a brick wall we've already run into many times before. So I still feel that for DVD Profiler purposes, it would be best to agree that we enter all maiden names into the last name field. Having said that, I repeat that I don't care WHAT Ken does to solve this, as long as he DOES solve it - preferably soon. While I may have my preferences, I promise I'll bow to whatever standard he sets. Because I personally don't see the current mess being a smart idea...  | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Single name field!  | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | no more actors and crew in the database, what a discspace saver  | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,311 |
| | Posted: | | | | I do believe a single name field is the only thing that will solve all parsing problems. | | | | Pete |
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