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    Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
Is DVDProfiler dead or hibernating?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
United States Posts: 2,379
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Quoting movie_madness:
Quote:
DVDP is a *disc-based* catalog instead of a *title-based* catalog like IMDb.

This is only true of the online database, not of our local databases.  I'm happily cataloguing many scores of digital recordings with DVDP right now with no problems at all.

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Posts: 4,364
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Quoting movie_madness:
Quote:
I gave up on DVDP longer ago, and now use my own methods to catalog my collection.


Well, I totally understand your point of view. If you (generic) have the skill to obtain exactly what you want, do it yourself.
Unfortunately, in my case I have not, by far, the knowledge to build myself a working system to manage my collection. Is it a problem? Not at all... I'll try to explain it with simple words:

In all what you write you mix two different things:
- the program, dvdprofiler, that is used to run a database. This database can be Invelos one, or can be a local one, totally different, or a mix of Invelos and local data.
- Invelos database created by users who follow Invelos rules

It appears that all what you describe can be done by the program. Some examples:
its database structure is set up to work only for one movie per disc. Not at all: When there is a short movie given as a bonus, it is very easy to create a specific profile
My own database not only does not need duplicate cast and crew entries, but it also downloads cast and crew from IMDb *automatically* via programmed scripts : Ok, but dvdprofiler can do exactly the same with CastCrewEdit plugin.
create a database that stores ALL my movie discs, digital movies, games, DVR recordings, VHS, laserdiscs: Ok, but you can also do this with dvdprofiler : one movie = one profile

In fact, you are unhappy with Invelos database, and I'm at least as unhappy as you and do not use it, the problem not being its structure, but rules that request incorrect data. But the program is great and has not need to be replaced. In fact I think that I'll use it for ever even without new updates, since it can be used locally without any problem nor link with Invelos.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 2,378
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Quoting DJ Doena:
Quote:
Quoting movie_madness:
Quote:
The prime flaw in DVDP is that its database structure is set up to work only for one movie per disc.


At least that has changed with Alternate Profile IDs.

No, this was only another workaround to cope with a false data base structure. Allowing profiles to have more than one ID does not eliminate the boundaries of the profile based data structure.

In theory it reads: As long, as data is duplicated within a data base, the data base layout is not correct (3rd normal form). ... and theory should be the base of practical products.

The example with the cast and crew is not the only problem in the data base layout, but the most obvious one. I have to agree with movie-madness, that DVDP will never work without friction on base of this data base layout.
List of common name threads - Headshots starting point
 Last edited: by AiAustria
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
Posts: 4,364
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Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
Allowing profiles to have more than one ID does not eliminate the boundaries of the profile based data structure.

I do not see the problem. With Alternate profile ID, you get two (or more) different profiles for two (or more) different movies, and each profile has a different ID. And if you don't like Alternate Profile ID, you can just use in local Manual IDs... There is really no problem to differentiate movies and profiles. The problem with the database is to differentiate two people with same name (no rule for unknown BY), and to link a person with two different names when rules create fake variants. But in local no problem.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Battle Troll
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Germany Posts: 5,928
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
Allowing profiles to have more than one ID does not eliminate the boundaries of the profile based data structure.

I do not see the problem.


The problem AiAustria is referencing refers to something else. If I understood movie_madness correctly, he has DVDs with more than one feature film and he felt like DVDP could not handle that. By now it can (alternate IDs).

What AiAustria is referencing is the problem that every EAN / UPC of Gladiator has its own set of cast and crew for that movie which are completely independent.

If someone fixes the credits for the American DVD that does not fix the credits for the American Blu-ray, nor the English DVD.

If someone adds a birth year for an actor, it does not populate throughout their movies, it stays in that particular profile, if there's already more than one birth year.


A proper database layout would have an actor list where every actor exists only once - like IMDb does.

Then - since we profile discs and not movies - it would have a title list that allows for multiple credit sets for the same movies, e.g. extended cuts with extended credits or localized role names - here IMDb has the reverse problem. They only have one set of credits and have to clumsily add "japanese version" or something like that to the credit list.

And in the DVD profile, you would simply select the proper movie profile.

This way you would have only one actor Russell Crowe born 1964 and (ideally) only one cast list for Gladiator.

But that should have been done years ago and it has been asked for for years. But for Ken it does not seem to be an important feature.
Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
Amazon Price Observer

 Last edited: by DJ Doena
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 2,378
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Quoting DJ Doena:
Quote:
What AiAustria is referencing is the problem that every EAN / UPC of Gladiator has its own set of cast and crew for that movie which are completely independent.

Correct. And not only cast and crew; other data is duplicated too, which ends up in studios with different capitalization in different profiles, with profiles of identical discs (same disk ID, same content) showing different audio tracks for different locations, etc.

The TV show issues also show this weak spot: for them the disc profiles are of nearly no importance compared to seasons (main structure for TV shows has to be something like Show-Season-Episode; disc profiles only group together episodes in this case - comparable to box sets, which group films together)...
Quote:
But that should have been done years ago and it has been asked for for years. But for Ken it does not seem to be an important feature.

I don't think he classifies the data base of little importance - at least I hope so - but redesigning the data base from scratch - and that's what we are talking about - is a huge amount of work...
List of common name threads - Headshots starting point
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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United States Posts: 13,049
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
In fact, you are unhappy with Invelos database, and I'm at least as unhappy as you and do not use it, the problem not being its structure, but rules that request incorrect data. But the program is great and has not need to be replaced. In fact I think that I'll use it for ever even without new updates, since it can be used locally without any problem nor link with Invelos.

While I am not as unhappy with the database as Surfeur is, I have to agree that the program is great and you can do, almost, anything you want with it.  I see no reason to chuck the program, with an easy to use interface, simply because one doesn't like the online database structure.
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Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
Posts: 4,364
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Quoting DJ Doena:
Quote:
... But for Ken it does not seem to be an important feature.

I understand all this, and I also think it is not an important feature, as long as we have present rules.
Present rules do not consider actors by themselves, but only actors as a credited name. So if one actor is credited differently in two different movies, we get two different actors in the database.

That means that the actors database is totally useless, and consequently I do not see any importance in any per the rules data concerning cast/crew. Dvdprofiler users should all use your tool, and they all would have the same cast/crew data in all the profiles of the same movie, with actors linking correctly in their different movies.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
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United States Posts: 4,692
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Does anybody have the skills and desire to create a proper database design? There can be no valid discussion of a solution unless such a thing exists and can be implemented. All the years of carping, complaining, wishes, hopes, and all other emotions can be quashed by that. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody can do it, but if they did, I would certainly use it. If such a thing had been produced years ago, by now, a huge portion of the online in use by members would already be converted - little by little.

So how about it? Some action to replace the hopes, dreams and complaints? 
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 Last edited: by mediadogg
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Battle Troll
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Germany Posts: 5,928
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Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
So how about it? Some action to replace the hopes, dreams and complaints? 


Years ago, I made suggestions on how to improve the audio section here.

I also made a new Cast entering demo client here and even made a demo video here.

I also made a demo to show how we could get from the current system to a unique ID system here.

The last link alone is more than six years old.

I got some user feedback but silence from Invelos.
Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
Amazon Price Observer

 Last edited: by DJ Doena
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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Netherlands Posts: 5,752
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I do not have the necessary skills nor the time to do something like that, but I strongly applaud DJ Doena's past efforts and his and AIAustria's ideas on a proper database structure for the program.

At the same time, I'm not optimistic that we will ever see it happen, as it' would require a huge effort both to develop a new database structure and to convert all accumulated data.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Registered: May 19, 2007
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I surely would be glad to help setting up a new data base design. But as far as my experience around here can tell, Ken/Invelos is not interested in anything like that. Otherwise he could easily divide the constructive guys from the trolls and ask for input...
List of common name threads - Headshots starting point
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDJViking
Registered: October 19, 2009
Norway Posts: 23
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DVD Profiler does not have sustainable development to warrant frequent updates. Invelos should fork the application into a new release and change updates to a subscription base.

Being a developer myself I am a little tempted to create an open source collection management application for home media (strange to think there is no such FOSS already). Even if its just for fun.
After writing this I had to check if there are any such OSS applications out there:
http://www.antp.be/software/moviecatalog
http://www.junauza.com/2013/01/best-movie-collection-managers-for-linux.html
https://macawmovies.wordpress.com/
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
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United States Posts: 4,692
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Kudos to the the guys that have been doing technical work. Perhaps DJ's  efforts can be the basis for a community effort. I think the focus should be at the design / conceptual level, rather than implementation, so that anybody can contribute without being a programmer. So the "open source" would be the database design / diagram, whatever - not the coding of any kind of tool. Maybe put t on the wiki?

Anyways, if there were some kind of accepted model or design within this community, then any developer (including Invelos) could make GUI's, clients, tools to suit their taste. But the underlying database structure would be the same, so that (meta)data could eventually be shared as desired.
Thanks for your support.
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 Last edited: by mediadogg
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